Getting my 364 Block clean ......... I plan to use an epoxy block filler to bottom of frost plugs so need to get the water jacket very clean so epoxy will bond ........... what is best way to clean out the rust ..........hot tank does not do good enough job ........... Muratic acid ?? Anybody use Evapo Rust with success on the water jackets ??
Use a 25% solution of phosphoric acid and allow it to sit and soak in the jackets for a few days. I've also heard folks use CLR (Calcium Lime Rust) solution. Drain and neutralize with simple liquid dishwashing detergent. Finally, put a stocking (ankle type) in the upper radiator hose and drive it for 40-50 miles, then pull it out - if it's good and clogged, put a new stocking in for another 50+ miles, then remove/check it. Continue until the stocking come out with minimal deposits.
OK ....... this is a bare block I am getting ready for machining ........pretty sure the Phosphoric acid is the base for evapo rust ....... so how clean does Phos acid get the block ?
I use Muriatic Acid for the cooling passage cleaning. Level the block on the engine stand. Make a metal plate for the timing cover outlet. Fill the block to within 1/2" from the top. Let sit for 8 hrs. to a day. Drain, rinse, dry & repeat if nec. Do this outside & DON'T breath the vapors!!!! Will get the insides as clean as new. Then do the other side same process. Tom T.
Great , thanks for posting I went ahead and used the Muratic acid as I had a gallon....... engine on stand out side and yes made block off plates ........ was not sure how long to leave ........so been in about 3 hours now will leave till morning ........ yes using a mask Thanks again ........ will be using that epoxy product you suggested Nordbak by Loctite to fill block ........... block is std bore 364 may clean up with .010 overbore .020 max ....... any issue with 364 to go .030 or should I play it safe and only go .020
x2 on the muriatic:TU: So after you flush the muratic out does it flash over with rust ? I have some work to do to the block before it goes for machining .......anything I should do or just get it good and dry
Muratic acid is going to be the best method for assuring good adhesion. Yes, you may see a slight discoloring, depending on how long you leave the acid soak and eat away the corrosion, but don't worry about it! The WORST thing you can do is use any oil after your muratic treatment. The epoxy will not stick to the metal if there is an oil residue! Since you are at this stage- before you pour the epoxy- you should sonic test your block to answer your question for sure how far you can over-bore. Erik
I've always been reluctant to recommend using Muriatic acid as it is a form of Hydrochloric acid - Muriatic is some nasty stuff to work with. Watch out too ... it'll eat aluminum. Contrarily, Phosphoric acid will get rid of the rust and a by-product is that it leaves a phosphate inhibitor. Heck, even vinegar will eat the rust away in about a day's soaking. Be sure to neutralize *thoroughly* or this acid will continue to etch.
I'm thowining in a couple of cents. The vapors from the muriatic acid can do weird things to the stuff arond them. I had some carb linkage sitting in a tub of the stuff and the vapors created a rusty looking coating on the chuck, table, and column of my drill press. I had the garage door open but there apparently wasn't enough air moving through there. I was told by a guy who ran a radiator shop not to use dishwashing liquid because it makes too many suds. He recommended powdered laundry detergent. I ran some through the engine and it cleaned the dirty crap out really well and there were no suds to fight. Ed
I know a guy who used a small tub to hold the engine block and filled it with Muriatic acid - the idea was to clean the whole block, inside and out. It certainly did its job - the block came out sparkling clean, including the bolt threads ... every thread bore on the block was completely smooth.
YES outdoors ..... this is wicked stuff I wore a respirator when I worked around it, fumes drifted into my garage when I left small door open .so be aware of opem windows etcetc if you working close to the house ........but it definitely works well since I want to put block fill in the lower part of water jacket I wanted it clean and etched to get a good bond Telriv ....... when it comes time to fill block I will ask for some guidence on best way to pour in so its gets all around the cylinders ........ I have some frost cracks to stitch first
I've done it, and tried to pour the epoxy throught the middle freeze plug hole with the heads on and NO GO. The best way that I've found is to make sure everything is around 70-90 degrees F (the block, epoxy, outside temp, etc.) so it flows smoothly.. Pour (with the heads removed) through the holes in the deck. Try to pour the same ammount in each hole. I had my main caps torqued down with the hardware I was going to use when I did my pour. I would have liked to have torqued down the heads, but the shimming I had to do to get everything level was not having it, and trying to get it level again with no deck surface to work with is a bit difficult. You can use a hair dryer to help warm things up, but don't get things too warm, as the epoxy seems to like to set-up prematurely otherwise. Blowing through the cylinder bores with the oil pan bolted on loosely helped warm it up without blowing the epoxy around 4lbs of material seemed to be about just right, if not a little too much, for each waterjacket on a 425. Wes:TU: (Block should be back this week from the machine shop!!:kodak: )
I have done it. It flows evenly & is self-leveling, but the block needs to be warm. It can stay in the sun or just use a heat gun blowing up through the block. Use a piece of sheet-metal to kinda enclose the valley to try & retain some heat. If you are going to go further than the bottom of the freeze plugs make sure you use the deep/stock freeze plugs. If you go even higher sink the deep plugs so very slightly below the chamfer as the epoxy has a tendency when drying to try & push the plug slightly out as it's expanding. As Wes has said, "install & torque the mains caps" before filling as the block will try to distort slightly. Then bore. When installing the cam make sure it turns freely. I had to use a slightly worn Scotch-Brite pad to "fine tune" the cam bearings so the cam wasn't binding. The insides need to be DRY BEFORE using the epoxy. Tom T.
Thanks for the info , appreciate it OK ensure block is level ,get and keep block warm, inside dry .......pour warm filler thru each hole in deck ............ only going to fill to bottom of big frost plugs .......... assume you do one side then let it set up ......how long before you do the other side 8hours ? Did you both use the Loctite Nordbak Backing Material ..... epoxy filler ??
Yes, 8 hrs. is plenty of time. The stuff is pretty self-leveling. If the block is warm,70*-90*, & the filler is a little cooler it will level itself right out just pouring it in the center holes & it will not set-up as easily before your done. Just in case be ready with a couple cut pieces of a paint stiring stick, but I haven't had to do this. If you really want to get trick. Lets say you sonic tested the block & the bores were kinda thin on the valley side you could tilt the block a few degrees so the filler will fill more towards the valley to supply even more support. If it's to the outside this poses more of a problem because now you'll be going above the bottom of the freeze plugs. Tom T.
There are actually only a couple manufacturers. There are instructions and more information here: http://www.coppsindustries.com/products/aggregate-and-mining-crusher-backing/ This is EXACTLY the same as Nordback. Nordberg is a brand of rock crushers and "Nordback" is the name of their "private label". They even show a picture of a Nordberg crusher on the website.:Smarty: If you want some of this stuff... send me a PM. I've got an inside source for you...:Brow: Erik
Thank-you I will come back to you when I get closer ........ I was planning to do this outside .......are the vapors that harmful ........ will a heat gun be enough to keep the block warm etcetc
