Cleaning 401 rockers/lifters - Dirty ?

Discussion in ''Da Nailhead' started by RJBT, Jan 30, 2011.

  1. telriv

    telriv Well-Known Member

    Looking close (enlarged the picture) at that pic of the oil screen it DOES look more like a piece of gasket. There are 3/401 blocks. '59-'60, '61 & '62-'66. ALL the oil pumps are different. New screens are NOT available. You will have to clean yours as best as possible. The screen usually sits between 1/4"-3/8ths. from the bottom of the pan. I'm sure I can get you a rebuild kit for yours & it will come with new gaskets. I can walk you through the process, but would be better over a land line. No sense buying a used one, you ALREADY have one. The crank is clean because the counterweights are moving through more oil & being cleaned while doing so.
     
  2. RJBT

    RJBT Well-Known Member

    Got a lot of stuff cleaned and dismantled.... What a pain it is to remove 50 years of grease :(

    First got the pan cleaned, hammered some bumps out and welded (brazed by buddy of mine) the pan nut.

    Second cleaned the oil pump and dismantled it. It looks clean and I measured the clearance between the gears and the cover and it is around [FONT=&quot]0.00314”/0.00354”[/FONT] well below the 0.005" the manual mentions. I assume I can use my pump (my buddy from garage told me to use it)... feedback ?

    I dismantled the rocker assemblies ... WHAT A PAIN !!! Tons of varnish.... I am still trying to clean every rocker etc....
    I did not dare take the plugs out of the rockers rod to clean it out (too scared to screw it up being so far from the States). So between blowing and squirting paint remover in it, I still have loads of "mud" inside. Will persevere at it.
    Also there are wear marks on the rod (the springs I think). My friend from the garage looked at it and mentioned it was probably not oiled correctly.
    Here are a few pics..

    I am worried because the amounts of dark "mud" I find in everything tells me I must have loads everywhere in the block. Wonder if any oil gets to the rockers/lifters because of it ? I am worried about all the little passges that bring oil to strategic places.
    I'll try to clean them out with wire and air, but I know it will inevitably end up somewhere else in the block (hopefully in the pan - before I install it back).
     

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  3. doc

    doc Well-Known Member

    Roland, pard,,, you have got to bite the bullet and take the plugs out of those shafts and clean the insides of them.... I use a rifle cleaning rod and brush and solvent.... you can use lacuer thinner to clean the parts but be very carefull because it is extremely flammable.... get a container with a lid put the parts in it and cover them with the thinner and let them soak over night .... then use compressed air to dry the rocker arms and a soft wire brush on a bench grinder to clean them up.... I wish you could get some simple green there , all you would have to do is soak the stuff over night and wash them off .....
    but you will never, never, get the insides of the rocker shafts clean unless you remove the plugs and run a brush through there.... and then blow them out with compressed air.... you can make some plugs out of brass or steel rod if worse comes to worse to replace the factory plugs....or just put the old ones back in after you solder the holes in them up.... if they leak some it is not going to hurt anything..... you gotta do this.... it is very,very, important....and.... I hate to disagree with your mechanic , but I dont like the way those gears look in that oil pump,,,,obviously they have ingested a lot of grit... pitted... no,,, you need another pump.... the walls of that pump housing are galled too....I fear that it will not hold enough pressure when the oil is hot....
     
  4. 64 wildcat conv

    64 wildcat conv Silver Level contributor

    I hate to disagree with Doc, but I believe your pump will be OK. If it were $100 to replace it then I would just for cheap insurance, but the most critical location for wear in a gear type hydraulic pump is the end clearance between the gears and the cover. As you mentioned yours is well under the limit of .005". So long as there are not any deep grooves on the end faces of the gears, housing, or cover then you should be good to go. I'm a former pump designer (automotive and commercial diesel) for Bosch Rexroth, by the way. In my current life I design turbochargers for Borgwarner :Brow:
     
  5. RJBT

    RJBT Well-Known Member

    Hum.... is the clearance between the side walls and the gears important ? There does not seem to be much wear (unless I am wrong).
    Here are pics of the inside of the body without gears.
    How about the mating of the gears ? anything to measure there ?
    I will buy a pressure gauge and sender to monitor the oil pressure.....

    Just a naive curiosity question (probably really stupid question): How about the pressure ball (valve)... I noticed the spring had a flat wear spot (not too bad)... does pressuring the ball a bit more (setting coins behind the spring to increase the pressure) helping raise oil pressure a bit (if the pump can) help lubricate a bit better ?
     

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  6. doc

    doc Well-Known Member

    Basicly all engine lubrication depends on smooth surfaces .... on the bearings, crank, ect... you would not use a crank that was that rough....because the irregularities will break the oil film and allow the parts to touch each other....it is your call,,,, but personally , I would be hunting another pump......or like Tom says,,, another set of gears....
     
  7. 66electrafied

    66electrafied Just tossing in my nickel's worth

    Just put everything back, don't put any coins in the spring. Those springs are specifically designed to work at what ever pressures they are set for. Placing anything in there only adds another unknown to a pump that may or may not work.

    I've seen worse pumps, that one doesn't look too bad. As long as your clearances are good, and the gears don't rattle in uneven bores, then it should work well enough until you decide to rebuild the engine.

    Be sure to lubricate everything up with grease, and pack the pump full of grease, otherwise it may not prime up when you start it.
     
  8. DaWildcat

    DaWildcat Platinum Level Contributor

    I don't recommend packing oil pumps with chassis or bearing grease, but rather petroleum jelly. The jelly melts away faster and at lower temps than grease so it'll be "gone" very quickly after it's job of helping to prime the pump is done.

    Devon
     
  9. doc

    doc Well-Known Member

    I always just put some oil in the pump and then prime it up with a drill motor.... then run it long enough that I get good oil up to the rocker arms.... when the rockers oil good the whole system is good to go......:Brow: then I start the engine....
     
  10. RJBT

    RJBT Well-Known Member

    Thanks for all the tips. I will definitely try to rig something along the lines of the drill tip to prime the oil before.... :TU:
     
  11. 66electrafied

    66electrafied Just tossing in my nickel's worth


    Thanks for the correction Devon, - it was a brain-fart, I did mean to say petroleum jelly...

    I think the only reason I mentioned grease was the fact that when I did a similar job to what Roland is doing my '60 Invicta 30 years ago all I had was grease, - it worked, but you're absolutely right, petroleum jelly works much better.
     
  12. John Codman

    John Codman Platinum Level Contributor

    Yup. And TA offers a tool for about $20 that will plug into the installed oil pump shaft and fit your drill. I bought one and It works great. Or you can make your own.
     
  13. doc

    doc Well-Known Member

    Yep, but I am cheap.... I made my own..... out of a old screw driver.... hey John ,,, speaking of being cheaP,,,, I just found a 425 in a junk yard, took apart and under a piece of sheet metal.... agreed on the price and then the guy tries to get $20 more just to pull it out from under the tin.....:Brow: :laugh: do you suppose that I am going to pay it???????:Brow: :Brow:
     
  14. bhambulldog

    bhambulldog 1955 76-RoadmasterRiviera

    Hey RJBT,
    I saw your mod of the intake. Any progress, below the intake? :grin:
     
  15. doc

    doc Well-Known Member

    Just for cleaning old grungy engine parts, I aint found nothing better than straight simple green in a over night soak.......
     
  16. RJBT

    RJBT Well-Known Member

    To answer Bulldog... No progress below the intake.. I woke up the other day (after helping a friend move) and could not walk... After xrays: a slipped disk is pressuring a nerve (they guess)... three days later I am walking almost normally !! Pfew what a weird feeling. Never want to go through that again. I was stuck sanding parts in my living room (oh yeah at least my arms were mobile !!)
    I'm really bummed though France is going through unusual summer like weather (79 deg F.) and my Buick is not ready :mad: Just crossed some happy/grinned faced guy in a 62 thunderbird convertible. I'm so jealous.
     
  17. Babeola

    Babeola Well-Known Member

    You must be very close to being finished by now? :Do No:

    Cheryl :)
     
  18. RJBT

    RJBT Well-Known Member

    Well not really.. Every time I clean a part.. I take off 2 more !!!
    I am missing a lot of nuts and bolts: a lot of missing bolts on the car !!! Bumper was hanging by 2 small bolts ! Front top brace (in front of radiator) had smaller self drilling screws holding it ! The guy who last rebuilt this car did it in a hurry it seems.
    • I need to find USA bolts (hard here)
    • Still need to repaint a lot of stuff.
    • I dismantled the heater box and the heater valve is shot.. need to find a new one.
    • Radiator seems to have a lot of blue deposit all over it. I assume it seeps but someone told me maybe not. So I have decided to clean it (not sure how) and paint it. And we will see if it seeps or not.
    In my water pump picture I noticed there is a broken bolt. Is that a problem or can I still run without it with no issues (I assume I can)
    I bought a nailhead pack of SS bolts from Alloyboltz and will replaced all the bolts I have.
     

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  19. bhambulldog

    bhambulldog 1955 76-RoadmasterRiviera

    I know that feeling. I've the same problem in spine for years.
    When, I have the problem ; A lot of acetimiephen (sp? Tylenol). And, a heating pad. And, a long hot shower.
     
  20. telriv

    telriv Well-Known Member

    That's NOT a broken bolt, just a missing guide stud or a stud that's sunk too deep.
     

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