John, I've certainly never heard this before and I know it's not true for the big block engines. The 1969 and earlier BBB and nailhead lifters share part numbers and sure do have a convex foot to promote rotation. Even the worn lifters shown in the photos here have been rotating all their lives which is why their wear pattern is circular and not linear. Would like to hear more about "forged camshafts" too...I know some nailhead crankshafts were, but camshafts????? Devon
Thanks for the "catch" Devon. As to the forged cam, I was repeating what I had been told by a local Nailhead guy. I just checked my 1959 Buick factory service manual and found that you are correct. The cam is cast iron. Mea culpa. :error: The manual also says: "A lifter body that has been rotating will have a round wear pattern and a non-rotating lifter body will have a square wear pattern with a slight depression near the center. Either condition is normal and such bodies may be continued in use if the surface is free of defects." (Emphasis added.)
Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrgggg !!!! Why me I am not near the car but I cropped the pictures of the cam to gauge its state and what do you all think ? There seems to be missing metal on the edges of the cam lobes. I assume the lifter being concave when it comes in contact with the rise of the cam lobe its edges catch the edge of the cam and chew the metal off ? The top of a cam lobe seems to have an oval wear pattern. Normal ? Good/bad ? My real problem is that I cannot dismantle the engine further... I have to remember I am doing this in a public parking garage in the middle of Paris (20 min door to door from my apt) with an amateurish set of home tools slightly better than a set of kitchen utensils ... with a very positive frame of mind though ! but I realize I am at the limit of what I can do. I will follow your advice and go no further for now. Total dismantling of engine will happen when I land a job, get a house etc..... Recommendations ? After a good clean up....What do I do with the lifters: Reinstall old ones Buy cheap ones and reinstall Buy better than cheap ones and reinstall I tend to want to do 2 or 3. HELP !!!!!!!!
As much as I hate to say it, I honestly have to say go with option 1 if a new cam and lifters is not possible now. Forcing this old camshaft to mate with a set of new lifters may be asking too much. Devon
I have to agree. Put the old ones back. The wear pattern on the lifters match the cam. Be sure the lifters go back in the same locations as they came from and get some good lube to put on them.
Should I try to break/hone/sand the sharp edge off the lifters ? (see pic) have the lifters (due to the wear) lost some reach ? meaning will the valves open enough ? I have kept the lifters numbered so I can set them back in the same spot....
2 questions,,, how long can you leave the car where it is????? and,,,, how likely is it that thieves will begin to take stuff off of it????? Here is what I would do in your situation.....I have in the past, pulled engines that were in unhandy places ... usually in junk yards, or peoples yards, outside... remove everything off of the engine that you can... all the brackets, ps pump, alt and its bracket , the ac compressor tie back out of the way.... remove the fan shroud , the fan/clutch assembly, belts, pulleys, exhaust manifold bolts, intake manifold/carb air cleaner ect.... then remove all the bolts around the bell housing,,, remove the heads,,,, drop the starter out,,, tie back the exhaust manifolds, or better yet remove them entirely.... pull the tork converter cover off and take the torq converter bolts out of the flex plate.... remove the engine mount bolts and the engine mount pads.... remove the harmonic balancer/pulleys/timing gear and chain assembly ..... drain and drop the oil pan/ oil pump/and oil pick up tube....in short,,, lighten the short block assembly as much as possible.... take out the old cam.... then when you get the short block down as light as possible,,,, rent a engine lift, and/or get several about 4 real stout guys to lift the short block out of the car.... then you can store the stuff in the trunk untill you remove it to clean, inspect and recondition each component untill you have it all done and ready to reassemble ..... this buys you time, and you can proceed slowly and carefully , not doubling your expense and efforts.... if you put the engine back together now with the old stuff you are going to have to do all that you have done and spend all that you have spent all over again.... if you possibly can , leave it torn down and proceed on with the rebuild,,, it will be cheaper and less work... you have a wealth of info and knowledge here on the board and you have enough ability and intelligence to get the thing done and done right.... just dont let that airball get away.....:laugh: to answer your questions,,, yes the cam and the lifters are junk,,,, and most likely the timing chain and gears..... the lobe in the pictures is rounded over on a front to rear axis which means that it is gone.... scrap them .....
I would love to do just that.. But I am not really suppose to work on the car in the parking garage.... so they are being patient with me now... but there is a risk that one day I get booted, so I wont tempt it. It will be for my next place.
I had the same situation,,,, wound up renting a boat storage shed with a concrete floor in it... and working on the car there....
What shall I do to the current lifters if I am to refit them ? They are really sharp on the edges and have very small missing pieces. I can tell its cutting into the cam. Can / should I file them down ? or stop there with my overly optimistic engineering fearlessness ?
but.... dont throw the old cam away,,, you can make a cam bearing reaming tool out of it ,,,, in case you need to ream the new cam bearings that you install into the block.....
I would disassemble and clean the lifters and then reassemble them back into the bores that they came out of. Be sure to bleed them by pumping them up in a container of clean oil. I wouldn't remove any metal from the lifters. This means no filing, sanding, buffing, etc as you may alter the wear pattern and/or remove case hardened metal. I've seen worse dirt/wear on older parts and got by with reusing them.
OK. So I should: Disassemble, Clean and Reassemble Pump up with clean oil Dont sand/file anything I'll steel wool the inside of the block (lifter) bores as the lifters were really hard to come out (varnish ?)
Don't even do that. The steel wool residue will end up being circulated through the oiling system. Instead use clean towels and remove what you can. Absolutely minimize (if not prevent) any debris from going through the lifter valley down into the oil pan. Dislodging this kind of sludge may seem a good idea but if much of the stuff makes it to the oil pan it can plug the oil pump pickup. Devon
OK... just paper towel cleaning.... I am taking off lots of scaling (varnished oil)... some (before I covered the cam) fell below the cam. Since I will take off the pan and clean all the oil sludge afterward, can I rinse the cam area with something and know that it will go straight down to the pan/bottom of block (may be a totally stupid idea) so I can then clean it out ? I am not sure how the block is constructed....
Put it back together will as little disturbance as possible and run it until you can do it right. If you must fiddle with things just do what makes you feel good and go on from there.
I will assume that you know which lifter came off of each lobe. If not, you must realize that the cam will be destroyed in a very few kilometers. If you are certain which lifter came from each lobe, put them back in, reassemble the engine, and drive it away. BTW: I wish my French was 1/100 as good as your English. A couple of my best memories are a three-hour dinner in a Paris restaurant, and the view from the top of The Eiffel Tower. I will return to Paris. Probably my favorite city. Vive La France!
Yes I have numbered all the lifters to put them back in the same spot... How a bout the rods ? I numbered them too although maybe got 1 or 2 confused.... Let me know if any of you come through Paris... will definitely meet up for a drink and share skinned knuckled stories ! Here is my Electra after a good cleaning (looks good from afar ... close up a different story !) behind Notre Dame Cathedral....
