Was that the motor you had in there with the SP3. I am sure he would have cut the heads when the motor was first built. I may have to get up there and talk to him.
You didn't have any trouble getting the intake bolts in I take it? Do you know if your intake was cut or heads? I have to have about the same as you on the decking and the heads being cut. They did take .015 more off the heads after they built the motor the first time. I might have .030 off the heads to go along with .050 off the deck. But I do not think my comp is over 11 it was supposed to be 10.6. That was before I had them take the .015 off the heads. My only option now as I see it is to elongate the bolt holes some. I am going to check the top of the intake to the heads to see if there is an interference. I can get the bolts in with no gaskets but if I put on the .030 it is too tight to get the bolts in. I am using some ink to check the top ports of the intake to see how much room I have. I am going to use a .015 gasket for the intake so it should be not moved up much. Getting the heads or intake is the only option I have but if I have room on the ports I think I can elongate the holes some to get them in with the .015 gasket.
Have the intake side of the heads cut for sure, DO NOT CUT THE INTAKE ITSELF. I had no issues with the intake bolts, I had the .032 comp. gasket then tried the .062 when I put the roller in. Didn't have issues with either.
I do not want to have either one cut. I really do not want to take the heads off, I have head studs and I have to take part of the steering linkage apart to get the head off. I won't cut the intake but I did notice the flange on the SP3 is bigger than the DP intake, about .100 more on the SP3. I only need a little bit more room for the bolts and it will go on. If you were able to put the .060 gasket on there I must have a lot more compression than I think. Did you have the heads cut to get the intake to fit when you went from the DP intake to the SP3?
The heads were cut almost 20 years ago on the intake side. .030 was cut from the combustion side way back when also. Nothing was ever cut from the DP or SP3
Generally...not cutting an intake is safe advice and good practice. However...if it proves to be incorrect against a few known good ones, such as a manufacturing error, then don't hesitate to exchange it or correct it. I'm not inferring anything about the maker. These things happen, I have seen quite a few other branded intakes with incorrect port locations or flange issues. It was entirely justifiable to make hard fixturing to bench check 'true position' quicker than a CMM can run things. A $10k+ set up with gauging is nothing when you are bigger than let's say, an Edelbrock sized co. Every once in a while a casting might be different for some reason, such as from a different mold if more than one at a time are poured or when things are changed out...that leaves the holes at a different starting point compared to how the rough casting is located and squared up. This can get by a machinist/operator periodically.
It does look like the ports are lining up good. I am really going to check tomorrow as I have white ink I am going to use to see exactly where the ports line up with the heads. I tried it one but I put too much ink on and it spread put too much. Then I will bolt it down without a gasket and see how it lines up at the ports. The top of the intake ports on the intake are where I have too look good at. I do not want to go above the head port, that would be no good. May have a point there with the intake may be off on the bolt hole location, I know I would only need to oblong the holes in the intake some but I think it should not have to be done to get it to fit. My heads had to be shaved to get the intake to fit back when it was built.
I think you're on the right track. You'd already mentioned that the cylinder head ports were just a bit larger than the intake all around, so even if the intake manifold's just a little bit high on the port but even even with the head on the top side, that's fine as that's pretty much the "business" part where it counts. An untorqued mockup is a starter with a little grease or dye. If it looks good there, go ahead and massage the bolt holes on the intake a little to get them in. Don't be afraid to torque down on the composite gaskets more than once to see what's up...that compression on the gaskets will leave you an imprint to see where you really are, and you might even find you'll have to trim the gaskets here & there. Just be sure the gaskets are always in the exact same place, every time...that can be a challenge, too! Hint: there are still a few strips of thin cellphane tape between my intake and heads...holding the gaskets in exactly the right place for final assembly. Devon
I took a few more pictures and made an impression with my ink. You can also see where the bolts line up on intake. the ports on the intake are close to the top of the head. I can't figure out why if this intake is made for more of a modified engine than a stock engine why my fit is so far off. Hey Demko, When you got your SP3 ported it may have had the ports on the intake too high and maybe there was some blockage, this may have been what kept your times down. before the bearing spun. I put the head on without a gasket to get the impression. Looks like I may get some other color of ink today and do it again to see a little easier on the intake. The cardboard just shows how close the flat part on the head is compared to the cardboard the board is .020 This had to have been cut when built. Then the other pics show the gasket in place lined up with the bolt holes. In the painted pics you can see how far off the bolt holes are and how close the ports are to the top of the head. Was this thing built for a stock motor or was it made for of a modified engine like mine? Because the fit is lousy if it was made for a modified motor that has 10.5+ compression. Should I call TA and send it back or deal with it, make the bolt holes bigger and just wait for the Aluminum heads, I am not about to take the heads off and have them milled to fit this intake, unless those heads are going to take 2 more years to get ready and if that is so I might as well pull the heads and just be done with it. What would you do?
I would say it is made for an uncut block and heads so there is material for people that have milled surfaces to make the intake fit. If they made it to fit a milled deck and heads engine it would need material put back on it for it to fit the uncut deck and heads engine. It is so much easier to remove material than it would be to add it back on, I hopes this helps. I would say to look for a virgin engine core for your next build and go with custom pistons so deck and heads only need minimal removed for truing for the new engine. For now just slot the holes the least amount you need for this engine and run it. With the new intake you can test those stock rods and see if they'll hold up to your new power band, fun stuff ahead! GL Derek
With the custom compression height pistons available now, there isn't a good reason to deck more than cleanup cut off block. Slap it together and call it good. Not alot you can change on block or heads now. How's it lineup with steel valley pan style gasket? Does intake need to be raised up? Maybe try .040 or .060 composites. You need a Race SP3, I'll take that one off your hands for 2 hundy!
Easier than an ink impression is to scribe lines that can transfer to the front edge of the intakes flange, and the heads to the front face. Just run a straightedge along the top or bottom of the port openings. Then you can quickly see how things line up with different intakes if need be. Easier I say because you don't need to make a trip to get more ink. Intake mismatches resulting in flow/mixture/combustion problems show up easily, even if the mismatch is ignored upon disassembly. The chambers will have signs of poor combustion, and it will run really crappy, esp.at idle. You'll need a few hundred more rpm to idle without dying, it will still show less vacuum and there will be the impression of spark plug problems. It takes a pretty big mismatch to cause a problem. A .050" or so ridge at the top is about where things are seen on the flow bench or vehicle. The flow stream recovers...it simply acts like a smaller port. Things are more exaggerated on engines such as FE fords, where the gasket interface is really close to the valve.
Michaels ported the intake to within .060 of the gasket opening on the ports as instructed by TA. I doubt there was enough (if any) of a port blockage to affect the running condition, the drivability was too good. Myself, I'm going to stick with my iron heads for now, I took 'em to Michaels to have him go thru 'em. I have a feeling its going to be a bit for the aluminums. I would think if your ports are lining up, even if they were a bit higher or lower, there would be enough wiggle room in the bolt holes to compensate. Ima thinking the bolt holes in the intake are skewed
After reading this post I mocked up a new Sp-3 intake on some engines to see if I could add any insight... I had 5 bare blocks here in front of me so I tossed on some stock heads and also some milled heads on each block. I have various thickness of ta intake gaskets her so I tried them out and what I found is that I had no issues at all. Some engines were better off with the thick gaskets and others with the thinner versions but they all bolted up fine... I even used one block that was zero decked and 30 thou removed and the intake still guy fine with the thicker gaskets...
Here is another trick to widen the gasket gap .030" per side; https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-37930/overview/ These would widen the gap another .015" per side; https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-37920/overview/ Not sure if those are the same size as sbb deck dowels though, but if you know a Tool Maker or a Machinist you might be able to get them to make those for you? Another side effect of using those or ones like those to widen the distance between the intake mounting surface of the heads is that they would move the valves closer to the center line of the bore unshrouding the valves ever so slightly possibly increasing flow! The bad part would be that the heads would have to be removed to use the offset dowel pins. Derek
My ports and especially the bolt holes lined up great. I just gave a quick eyeball at where the threaded hole was in relation to the bolt hole in the intake, IIRC, they weren't perfectly centered, but nothing that caused any issues. I'll go out and get a pic, hopefully they'll be witness marks from the shoulder of the bolt on the intake flange.
