Camshaft and gears

Discussion in 'Street/strip 400/430/455' started by 41speciman, Aug 22, 2018.

  1. 41speciman

    41speciman Well-Known Member

    I have read the 101 degreeing. Im intalling a akenne Bell MK 3 useing the same double roller chain with 9 key slots. Setting #1 at TDC the 0 marks are not stright up like should be cam gear dot is off to the right about a tooth to the right. Is cam advanced that from the start ? Any suggestion would be appriciated
     
  2. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    Cam dot will always be straight down, your crank sprocket is where the adjustment is, the instructions for the Roll master chain set is in the TA catalog and possibly on their online catalog, position cam dot straight down and see what it lines up to on the crank sprocket
     
  3. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member

    On that 9 way setup when put the crank gear on any slot other than 0 you need to remark the correct corresponding crank tooth to have your mark line up
     
  4. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    Not to hijack your thread from the start, but where do you get the 9-keyway gear from and maybe what's the part number?
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
  5. 41speciman

    41speciman Well-Known Member

    So it can be set to any mark that lines it up just mark it for the dot ?
     
  6. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Jim goes over how to use the TA Billet 9 key way roller chain set up in the Degreeing 101 thread. It's right there in the very first post, pictures # 12 and 13, and text to explain it. This is from the TA Catalog.

    TABilletTimingChainSet.JPG
     
  7. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    TA 1524 is the standard chain set for the 400-430-455. Download the TA Catalog and keep it on your computer. It's a valuable resource.
     
  8. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    As long as you don't use it for pricing, even the newest version isn't a reliable price guide.:rolleyes:
     
  9. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    :DWell, it isn't like they don't warn you of that in the very first sentence in the catalog.:)

    TASalesPolicy.JPG
     
  10. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    Yeah, but if even some of them were right I wouldn't of brought it up. It seems like they are the first prices written in the "online" catalog that are in the online catalog that are hundreds of years old, just sayin.o_O
     
  11. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Yes, we agree the prices are not current, but that's not what the primary use of that catalog is for me. I use it to see what is available from TA, and my suggestion to download the pdf was along those lines.:)
     
  12. 41speciman

    41speciman Well-Known Member

    Ok that makes sense the paper that came with chain does not tell very much. So after setting it still check the degree of cam and set to card ? Thanks
     
  13. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member

    You end up having to degree it in a few times. Once at 0 to figure put which way and how far you need to go, then once again to verify. The idea for most is get the opening and closing events as close to card as printed.

    Now someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the factory Buick sets had 4 degrees advance built in. The table set does not. So that means if the cam grinder used stuff bases on the stk Buick sets, mostof the time you need to go +4 to just get back to stk specs. I have never had a cam and 9 way set line up on 0 most are +4 or +6 to just get to the card specs.

    Reading the below may really confuse some ppl.


    The real trick, but also the good about the set, is let's say as in my case I had to be +6 to get to card spec, but I then wanted advanced the cam 4 more, I don't have enough spots on the crank gear, you can move the cam ahead then retard the crank to get the specs back to being 4 over card.

    So if my cam was to be in at 108. And it takes plus 6 to do that. If I want to run at 104 to try to manipulate my rpm range, I don't have 2 more crank slots to get there, I can jump the cam ahead 1 tooth........= to 15 degrees.......that would put me now at 93 with my crank still on the +6. Now put the crank at 0.....I'd be at 99, keep going to the -4 slot, I'd be at 103, as close as I could.....could go to -6 to be at 105. I know all this can be crazy confusioning, but it shows just how adjustable the sets are. God forbid the unknowing person open a motor up see it timed that way, they would think it was way off.

    I have personally had to do this, and it ran great.

    I'm akso not 100% sure all the keyway in the crank are cut perfectly at 0 tdc.
     
  14. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    Larry, Larry, Larry, I wasn't pointing out any wrong doing from you, I was pointing out the old pricing in the down loadable catalog.

    You are right though about it having good tips and directions and such, I was just trying to point out that you don't want to use it for pricing even though it has products in it that are NOT listed on their website.
     
  15. BuickV8Mike

    BuickV8Mike SD Buick Fan

    Enough with the pricing already...
     
  16. No Lift

    No Lift Platinum Level Contributor

    X2 on what Ben said. Been there, done that.

    If you aren't degreeing the cam in while using a billet 9 way setup then more than likely your cam will be way retarded when going just by the numbers on the lower gear. If you aren't degreeing it in then just get yourself a regular gearset and install it as-is. If it a old KB cam then it probably has 4* advance built in and a stock chain/gear set has a much better chance of hitting close to where the cam belongs.

    On another point, the early KB Mk3 was a fairly serious cam with 34* of overlap and the later 3H had 40* of overlap so they are fairly serious cams especially for a street car so I'm hoping this cam is going into a fairly serious engine and you do actually degree it in.
     
  17. 41speciman

    41speciman Well-Known Member

    That was to be the next question I have KB 113 cams in both my engines now and had a poston 118 in another so what would be serious ? So far its 030 stock rods shot peened side polished forged pistons with relief cuts for valves crank is 010 rods 010 mains main bolts line honed grooved cam bearings oil mods done iron stage 1 heads stainless valves KB roller rockers and pushrods topped off with a B4B intake and stage 1 carb and stinger S-4 to spark it up the off to a m-21 stage 1 4 speed to the 364 posi rear end thats about as serious as this one gets
     
  18. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member

    Does this car have power brakes? If so withe the amount of overlap there might not be enough vaccum to work them correctly.
     
  19. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    :D:D I know Derek, just messing with you.:)
     
  20. 41speciman

    41speciman Well-Known Member

    The only power besides the battry is the top and power steering it has aluminum drum brakes in front so was not worried about vacume but if it is to radical for street/strip I will tone it down to the lunati or put a MK 113 out of the engine coming out and just set the gears stright up and set the double roller off to the side along with the roller rockers and run the 69 rockers with 70 push rods. If you were going to run a MK 3 what would you do to the engine to make it serious for the cam ?
     

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