Calling All Qjet Experts (Question 2)

Discussion in 'The Venerable Q-Jet' started by mrolds69, Mar 21, 2018.

  1. mrolds69

    mrolds69 "The Cure"

    100_0201.JPG 100_0202.JPG I buy this rebuilt Qjet for a 1970 7040240 and the secondary pulloff vacuum tube points to the fender unlike any Buick quadrajet I've ever seen. I say "Hey, what's up with the secondary pulloff on this carb?" I get no response, zippo...nada...none! Here's a picture of it next to a correctly oriented pulloff, and another picture of a carb that looks the same. The question is, do you know why it's pointing away from the carb like that? My new carb is the one on the right in the pics with 2 carbs. Wait...Wow...coincidentally I just found another one that looks the same on here! Checkout pic 3.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 24, 2018
  2. Bigpig455

    Bigpig455 Fastest of the slow....

    I've got 2 NOS 7041242 service replacement carbs and they both point toward the carb...
     
  3. mrolds69

    mrolds69 "The Cure"

    I'm sure they do Rhett! It's actually another question I know the answer to already. It's the wrong pulloff, plain and simple. You can tell from the side shot of the 2 carbs. The correct Buick type pulloff has a slot where the linkage rod attaches. It's maybe a Cadillac pulloff, maybe an Olds one...who knows? You would have to ask Mark Northcutt for the answer I guess. But...he's not going to answer you, he's going to ignore the question, and clearly he doesn't know which end of a Buick carb the air enters!
     
  4. mrolds69

    mrolds69 "The Cure"

    Oh crap!!!!! Now I just noticed looking at the pics again myself the secondary lockout lever is missing! Looks like I'm going to have to fix this thing myself. Thanks Mark! Quadrajet Power carbs ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  5. Chi-Town67

    Chi-Town67 Gold Level Contributor

    Hey Frank,
    Can't that pull off just be removed and rotated to the proper orientation? That's how it looks from here anyway, like it's 180* off.
     
  6. carmantx

    carmantx Never Surrender

    It is correct unit. We turned it for better vacuum flow due to the orientation of the outlet.
    It can be turned, or you could just curse and threaten us and call us idiots and blind. Everybody now knows what you chose to do.
    And our carbs do rock. Thank you.
     
    SteeveeDee likes this.
  7. mrolds69

    mrolds69 "The Cure"

    No Nick, the pulloff can only go 2 ways. You can rotate it 180 degrees. It needs to go 90 degrees. If it's turned 180 degrees it would be pointing to the carb, but pointing down towards the manifold. Look at the pic of the side shot. See how the one on the left is slotted where the rod goes in? Look on Quadrajet.com and search for a 7040240 secondary pulloff. It's slotted. It's wrong, and he's lying! He's lying! Wow! Where's Cliff Ruggles the Guru of carbs. Please step up and say what you think about that pulloff. Unbelievable, "we turned it for better vacuum flow", we know better that Buick and Rochester did...wow...wrong part, wrong part, wrong part, ugh. I suppose you took the secondary lockout lever off for a good reason, too? Like so you can sell it on ebay or something? Mark...why don't you just "man up" instead of lying and making up stories? Do you really need the $ that bad? You won't fix your own mistakes? Are you kidding me?
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
  8. mrolds69

    mrolds69 "The Cure"

    I never cursed or threatened you. It's another lie. I did say I would post my experience here. Idiots and blind, you said it not me. True dat...let's add liar to that, though. You put the pulloffs like that for better vacuum flow, huh? Yeah...that makes a lot of sense. Are you kidding me? lol
     
  9. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    The secondary lockout lever is often left out of a performance carb build, which is what you had done by Mark. While he has made efforts to pretty them up, and a lot of folks like his work, I don't think he ever claimed to be the concours guru. Seems like your displeasure is based on a bad choice that YOU made. You wanted perfect, and budget price.. not likely.

    Cliff Ruggles is your man for ultra picky concours restorations on Q-jets.

    Send him your carb, $600 and he will get to it sometime later this year.. or early next.... you want the best, you pay, and wait.. there is no shortcut.

    JW..
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
  10. mrolds69

    mrolds69 "The Cure"

    Good morning men! Um...ok...I looked at these 3 threads. Rather than pick out quotes, I'm going to try to wrap this up. First thing...I've read + have Cliff and Doug's books. I've probably rebuilt 20 +- carbs personally starting in maybe 1967 or 68. I have a choke angle gauge, Kent-Moore choke gauges, a float gauge, a lot of carb stuff. So...I didn't just fall out of tree. I raced cars back in the 60's and 70's and won a pile of trophies doing it. I can re-jet or re-rod at the track multiple times easily. I know how you modify a carb for performance, these are all things I totally understand and can do. I absolutely know Cliff is the Guru, I know he does concours, I know it's a long wait, I know he's expensive. All of this I know.
    Ok...When I bought my car it had a Stage 1 carb on it. I bought a 7040240 carb off ebay that was totally rebuilt from some seller. I put it on the car, it ran bad. I readjusted everything, it ran GREAT for a year or 2. Then I was working on something under the hood, I removed the carb, when I put it back on it started leaking at the fitting (yes I have flare wrenches). I look it over and whoever I bought the carb from had used a stripped repair type fitting. I got it to hold, I thought this winter I'd get it fixed. So...I looked at my options. The carb I had bought, the date wasn't close. I was watching ebay for a long time for a close date and couldn't find one. I knew that QP could fix it, so I sent an email to Mark. Got a very quick response, I explained the prob, I told him I really wanted a closer date carb. He said he had one and gave me the cost to rebuild it, color it, offered to upsell me to "Level 2". I looked at the carbs on his site and faceplace and they looked fine. Concours? No...definitely not...but the carbs you see on his site look ok, I could live with it. Honestly...I don't need a concours carb to take concours or first place at the BCA Nats.
    I thought it over, Mark was responding to all my emails. I made it absolutely clear I was not looking for a Level 2 carb, the car was bone stock. I did ask about a tuning sheet, I wanted one, I wanted to know what was in side the carb for future reference. I paid immediately, that was that, I never bothered them or asked anything more until the carb arrived a month later. It was all good. The box comes, it's on my porch, I'm excited! I'm also very nervous, because it's a WAY SMALL box, I've shipped and received a lot of carbs, radios, etc. I would never ship a carb in a box like that. But...it's ok it's packed good, no damage to it. I open the box and look at the carb and immediately notice the loss of coloring in the front. I notice the pulloff, I notice the hammered fittings. And...he sends that weird gasket, I mean come on Jim...are you kidding me? I email him, I said the coloring is bad in the front, it looks like the wrong pulloff. It's definitely the wrong gasket, there's no tuning sheet. I've got all the email correspondence here. I ask Mark, did you work on this carb personally, did you look at it at all, did you pack it? Mark promptly responds to me. He doesn't answer my questions about working on the carb or looking at it. He says, the gasket is fine, it's going to work. If I'm not happy he will send another gasket. He ignores the pulloff question. The tuning sheet? He says there's more to a carb than rods and jets. I know that! Kind of like...mere mortals like you can't possibly understand the inner workings of a carb. The big issue...the coloring...he says it wasn't like that when it left. He offers to fix it, strip it, or recolor it. He says...here's your RMA number, bye bye! He never says I'm sorry it arrived like that. He never says I never looked at it, I never touched it, I never packed it. I asked him in 3 different emails. He says send it back. We go back and forth for a week. Then communication breaks down. I call UPS and say I have an RMA number to return an item, what do I do? UPS says I need a label to do it. I email Mark for a label, he ignores me. I email him again the next day, he ignores me. I have my GF call him, he won't answer the phone. Leave a msg, I'll get back, he never does. I post about the gasket here, he finally sends an email (because he's not man enough to talk to me) saying I have to pay the shipping back to TX for him to fix it (for free). Are you kidding me??? I have to PAY so you can fix your mistake? In what world is that a fair deal for me? Is that a good business practice? Does $28.00 mean that much to Mark to risk his reputation? Apparently, it does, I kind of pity the guy, actually. Now it's true Mark may build great performance carbs, it's equally true you are never going to get a concours carb out of that place. I mean...hey...I haven't even put this thing on my car, I might start knocking down 11's at the track right away. I mean now that the pulloff is in that special position where I get maximum vacuum I should be good right? Why can't people just be honest, is that asking too much? Are you kidding me? ROFLMAO That's total BS, it's an out and out blatant lie! Ok....Cliff...yeah...absolutely, probably the best Q guy on the planet, I absolutely know it. I also noticed he didn't answer my question about the pulloff, which kind of DOES answer my question. That's why I was calling him out, really. I know Mark frequents Cliff's site with questions. Me too! I know Mark has asked Cliff questions I know the answer to. I know "birds of a feather...". Anyways, if I explain to a carb builder I want a stock carb, they should not throw my secondary lockout lever in the trash. Let's look at that pulloff issue again. It's true the supply is dwindling. But they are out there, I bought 2 NOS 1970 AC pulloffs last week. I can buy a NORS correct pulloff today. You have to know the numbers. I'm not talking about modern numbers, I'm talking about Niehoff, Standard, GP, Tomco, etc...OLD numbers. I know the secondary pulloff is not a big deal to race guys. Look At Greg's site, 'cuz that pulloff looks pretty good to me. I know an NOS pulloff had a slot, not a hole. Cliff knows that, too. Yeah...he knows lots of stuff, but he's not talking. It's just a total lie and absolutely CRAZY to say you can put that pulloff in any position you want. It's CRAZY to say that "I put it in that position because it works better". It's crazy, plain + simple. Bottom line? Yeah...I should have gone to Cliff, I can afford it, I can wait, pay once big or twice small. If he won't work with me...it's cool...I understand...it's not the end of the world. So let's sum this up! I really have no intentions of deleting this thread. It is all the truth, I can back it and verify it. All people need to know is Mark might build a great carb, but if you got a problem with it, it doesn't matter if it's his mistake YOU are going to have to pay to ship it back. And...he's going to absolutely ignore you. I agree, at the end of the day this benefits nobody, and...yeah...huge mistake on my part!!
     
    Lucy Fair and Stage 2 iron like this.
  11. 436'd Skylark

    436'd Skylark Sweet Fancy Moses!!!!!

    I don't know anyone involved here. Regarding the pull off, well if that's all that is available then that is it man. I'm sure there are a decent supply of the NOS pull offs around but likely 3 times the price. Your giving him a lot of crap about the vacuum flow. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see if that pull off is rotated 180 degrees it would be impossible to attach a hose with out it kinking.

    You want a build sheet? If it's bone stock consult the assembly manual.

    Have you installed the carb to see how it runs?
     
  12. mrolds69

    mrolds69 "The Cure"

    If you read my whole post above, you would know I haven't installed it. Yeah...I know what the stock specs are supposed to be, that doesn't mean that's what they are. You wanna' buy it from me and try it on your car? Then you can let me know.....
     
  13. Cliff R

    Cliff R Well-Known Member

    I didn't respond to any of these threads simply because it's the busiest time of year for us and I don't visit this board on a daily basis anyhow.

    I'm here now and will address the secondary pull-off issue for the early Buick units. They original pull-offs were slotted for the link, not a round hole and the vacuum fitting was correctly oriented to point toward the fitting in the rear of the baseplate for the vacuum supply hose.

    Bad news is that they are NLA, and haven't been for some time. The suppliers are sending the 1970-74 Cadillac and 71-72 Pontiac front pull-offs instead. They will work fine but the vacuum supply is not correctly oriented so plan on either pointing it outboard or inboard and bending it if/as needed.

    Recoloring. If one is using the original chromic acid process that Rochester and Carter did for these castings it's not uncommon to have "blotchy" areas and inconsistent color. This happens because the zinc and lead content of the original castings vary some, and any weathering, chemical dipping, oxidation, dark spots, etc, etc will effect the end results pretty dramatically.

    One also has to throw in the works here that over the years the metal composition or "recipe" used for those castings changed some. Early units typically come out much darker than later units due to less zinc and more lead in the base material.

    To complicate this deal even further, time, temperature during the coating process and how well the castings are prepped have a major impact on the final product.

    These facts have led some "builders" to use Eastwood paint or have the main casting and airhorn zinc coated before the process so the end result comes out looking more like a power brake booster than a carburetor. Even with that said because Eastwood paint is so consistent and bright in color, as is the zinc first then dipping process, customers have come to expect a restored carb to have a bright yellow-gold finish instead of the original olive-drab dull appearance.

    I still use the original process here, but for a variety of reasons some castings just don't come out as well as we or the customers would like. It doesn't happen often, but rest assured anything very heavily weathered/oxidized or has been to a commercial builder to be "remanufactured" will not look all that great when finished.

    I have a 3rd party source who we can send problem castings to if/as needed, but we don't do that often because it is very expensive.

    Last comment on plating, coloring castings and restoration. We are completely BURIED in that sort of work at the moment, and really don't want any more of it, or at least nothing sent here that anyone is in any hurry to get back.

    Anyhow, hope the information is helpful, and we have one correct secondary Buick pull-off in the inventory that I just located a couple of days ago. Been thinking about selling it to the highest bidder so I can finish paying off my mortgage!.......Cliff
     
  14. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    Frank, just for the record, did you pay to have the carb body re-colored?
     
  15. mrolds69

    mrolds69 "The Cure"

    Yeah...thanks for posting Cliff...I really appreciate that! Right, slotted...now using a few universal types with a hole. Only 2 positions they can go in. Straight from "The Q Guru", it doesn't get any better than that! I know they will work, I know they are becoming extinct.
    Thanks for the plating info, too. Other people have emailed me or mentioned about the difficulty of the coloring/ plating process.
    I've owned NOS carbs, I've seen a ton of NOS carbs, I know they differ. Seen a ton of restored carbs, too. This is all really helpful info to those choosing to have their carbs done. The level they want to get to.
    Yes Jason, I paid extra for the coloring.
     
  16. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    Whats up with the rust stains on the body above the fuel inlet just under the air horn gasket?
     
  17. mrolds69

    mrolds69 "The Cure"

    I don't know, I thought maybe it was the coloring chemicals or something. I got to crack this thing open and look inside, it's scary looking. I want to know what's in there. There's something going on with that choke flap rod, too. Maybe it's full of Skittles, who knows?
     
    Stage 2 iron likes this.
  18. Cliff R

    Cliff R Well-Known Member

    One more comment on coloring the castings.

    The chemicals that are currently available are NOT nearly as good as they were a few years ago. I've been doing this full time since 2003 and have had my hand on over 12,000 carburetors with quite a few being restored.

    A couple of years ago I noticed that there was a very noticeable change to the chemicals. I even rejected two batches and complained to the supplier, but they insisted that NOTHING had changed anyplace and the problem was on my end.

    I called BS on that deal but no matter where we sourced out the chemicals the end result was the same. At that time we had to change the "recipe" and procedures we used to color castings and the results have never been quite as good since despite our best efforts/attention to detail, etc.

    The cost of EVERYTHING involved with plating small parts and coloring castings has also went up nearly 300 percent since I first got into this business. We have considered getting out of the restoration business all together because of this.

    Currently at least 1/3rd of what we do was just done someplace else, and we have PLENTY of carbs here for tuning and complete/correct rebuilding that don't need restoration. So basically I'm pretty close to getting out of the restoration business and just offer tuning/rebuilding for carbs, and offer ala-cart services like heli-coil installation, other thread repairs, complete baseplate rebuilding, screw in bottom plug repairs, and quick "tune-ups".

    Also parts sales now makes up over 50 percent of our business and we are a manufacture of many parts that are NLA, difficult to obtain, or not making the grade.

    Currently we produce custom wound power piston springs, custom accl pump springs (far superior to what the suppliers are sending out as our return spring is stainless steel and upper spring chrome vanadium wire), all of the OEM type fasteners black zinc coated, etc.

    We even offer a lifetime warranty on our accl pump seal as we refuse to use the ones the main suppliers send even though they are dubbed "ethanol resistant".

    Anyhow, no bids yet on my last correct early Buick secondary pull-off, come on guys I need to pay off the rest of my mortgage so I can retire!......LOL.....Cliff
     
  19. TORQUED455

    TORQUED455 Well-Known Member

    Like I’ve mentioned before, I was a mechanical engineering student in the 80’s and worked at the Lexington Ave plant in Rochester, NY where most of the Quadrajets were made. The castings were done in-house and I had a stint in the Chem Lab, which was in charge of the plating. The plating on the air horns and float bowls for automotive-based carbs was zinc dichromate and was done in massive platers with large, rotating baskets that kept rotating in the solution IIRC. The automotive throttle bodies were not plated. There were smaller platers for the seemingly endless array of carb parts and types of plating, but I don’t remember too much about those. The plating of the air horns and throttle bodies took a long time, several/many hours if I remember correctly. And I also think they tinkered with the brew as the years went on by. I don’t believe that any “brand” got any different type of plating, other than year to year changes.

    The marine carbs were plated differently. They had their own elixir for the air horns and float bowls, and the throttle bodies were also plated. The ironic part is the marine customers, such as Mercury Marine, agreed upon certain platings for all sorts of their carb parts, but then spray-painted them with some sort of black paint when they got them. This was done against the advice of the Rochester Products engineers, for good reason, but that fell on deaf ears. I’m not sure how they handled warranty issues with the marine industry, but I’m sure that was a good time.

    Back to the automotive carbs. The chem lab constantly monitored the caustic solution and were making adjustments to keep it within the parameters. I believe the solution was also heated, but the plating wasn’t done under any type of controlled atmospheric conditions, like the wet-flow testing of the final assembled carbs were. The plating dept in the plant was not a pleasant place to be in or work in! Not as bad as the foundry out back, but not a good environment.

    Rochester Products had at least 2 holding areas that I can remember for scrap. Scrap was a big business, especially the scrap generated from all of the machining of the parts. It took a lot of people and a lot of machines to make all of the carb parts. Besides the scrap from machining, there was another area of scrap in a caged-in section for other scrap, such as bad castings, bad machining, bad plating, etc. I don’t recall the why the area was caged in, but there was a considerable amount of scrap. If a carb was partially assembled or even fully assembled and it headed to the scrap pile, it was disassembled and the parts were categorically scrapped. There were work stations inside the cage for disassembly, and large bins full of stuff that needed disassembly and bins for the different parts.

    While I haven’t seen one of Cliff’s concours carbs, I do know that getting everything 100% is a very tall task, especially using used/seasoned parts to begin with. I don’t know much about judging, but I wonder if a carb is judged cosmetically under a miscroscope too?
     
  20. HotRodRivi

    HotRodRivi Tomahawks sighted overseas

    I know my wife will never see this so . I lower my expectations and dinner taste great.
    You can apply this to say about your carburator expiearance. And then because my wife is better in many ways i dont sweat the dinner thing. If you run that carb and it kicks ass well hell you can get over the service issues and pull off or looking like crap i would think.
     

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