Not hearsay, not rumor, not B/S, fact. Don't know legislative "number" or whatever, don't care about that, do know I called my friend at the CARB this morning, at his house, and it is in the works, begins day after tomorrow. Also, confirmed, also from the same person, also this morning, something I have known about for over 15 years. Somewhere in the Inyokern area, at a CalTrans yard, under wraps, 22 mobile automobile crushers sit, new, never used. These were to be used to crush vehicles that did not pass emissions as the CARB saw them, but never got the program into law. Back then, CARB had this idea to confiscate vehicles on the spot, of owners whom resisted having their vehicles taken off the roads voluntarily, under those not instituted CARB altered laws. The plan included finding the vehicles and draining them, crushing them on the spot when found, right in front of the owners, whom were to be restrained by law enforcement officials. CARB just never got the plan approved and implemented into law. CARB has been trying to get the first phase of those plans going for many years, and this stuff is the first step, now operable. Now, I don't care what you think of me or what I have posted on this topic, but it isn't B/S or false, just the facts. Believe what you will, but be ready for the next CARB assault on our vehicles, it is about to begin all over again, day after tomorrow. Does anybody here really think the CARB would tell the general public they were going to insituted this kind of program or legislation they went about sneaking it into law? They never have previoulsy, fact. Come on, get a grip on reality, it was a stealth deal, as all CARB operations and schemes are, plain and simple. What did you expect from these CARB people, an even break? NOT. It's just like crusher programs, whom all believes they were to actually HELP clean the air? Hold up your hands. You are all seriously misled! Crusher programs were set up to remove those vehicles the CARB deemed "gross polluters" by having the oil companies buy all them up for $700.00 each, then making sure no parts were removed from them, no parts sold to restorers, others, just crush them and issue credits to those participating oil companies for those targetted vehicles removed from California roads, streets and highways. And the credits, what did they do? Well, they were set up so the oil companies could use them, as needed, to AVOID repair/redesign/revamp oil refineries to meet current emissions regulations for them. Incidents that would in NO WAY even clean anything, just keep the refineries going as usual, not fixed. Now, you want to believe it or not, not my problem, all yours, but its coming, ain't no rumor or hearsay, no B/S, and I'm going to do everything to get out of California as fast as possible, I can see the invisible writing on the wall. BTW, my CARB freind isn't too happy about all this, he gets shouted to silence by EVERY other board member there whenever he tries to defend older vehicles in the meetings. He's the ONLY member with an older vehicle (musclecar).
Searching for Confirmation I couldn't find any mention of any new smog laws at the CARB's website. o No: Maybe I didn't dig deep enough. If it is true, then it sure appears as if they don't want anyone to know about it. Here's their link if anyone else wants to look into this. http://www.arb.ca.gov/homepage.htm
I have searched all over the Internet, and it is really difficult to pin down recent facts on this subject. However, here is a useful site which was updated a few months ago: http://www.geocities.com/smogrfg/remotesensing/principles.html So, while the 1966-1973 cars remain exempt from bi-annual smog inspections, they are not exempt from the new CA mobile tailpipe montoring designed to catch "gross polluters". A disputed case goes to an arbitor official, who would probably let you go if you have all your smog stuff intact, or your car is pre-1966. The trap is with 1966-1974 cars whose mandated smog equipment has been removed. Sounds like a big hassle for a lot of owners. Escape while you can, IgnitionMan.
Here is an interesting section... a few of these subsections appear to be pretty open ended.. It talks alot about stopping folks and issuing tags, but says nothing about confiscation/crushing cars. But like Dave said.. it might just be a first step.. Boy these folks have spent a lot of time, energy, and money on this deal... http://www.arb.ca.gov/bluebook/bb02/hs26/44081.htm JW
I am new to california, just how difficult is it to pass one of these emissons tests? I have a 72 without Ca. emissions - would I have to get it?
You shuld be OK From all the information that I've been able to gather on this subject so far, as long as you retain all the emissions equipment, if any, that were originally installed, your car should be OK and it would also be exempt from the bi-annual inspection process. Check with your local DMV office to make sure. Of course it sounds like that too might change in the not too distant future.
Dont they make Hi-Flo Cat Converters now ?? WIll this help ?? Also, I remember watching something on TV about this, and that they have or are testing equipment that DOESN"T require you to actually stop and have a probe stuck up your Butt.....they are working on equipment that can actually register the emissions as the vehicle is driving down the road !!! No idea if its in use, being tested, or under developement, but thats a scary thought too !!! They have Camera's at traffic lights that send you a ticket if you go through the Red (I've gotten one actually), Next will be these roadside Speed Minders sensing your oncoming speed, snapping your plate and issuing a speeding ticket automatically.....then one for Gross poluting too ?? What a future.....uzzled: Along these lines.....did you ever stop to get a toll ticket, which you then give back at a toll booth and they charge you by where you got on and are getting off ?? Well.....wouldn't it be a small step away to record the Time you got the ticket on the card.....and the time you turn it in ?? They know the distances between point A and point B....... ....."Ahhh Mr Wander ?? you traveled 120 miles in 90 minutes.....That'll be $5.50 for the toll and $150 for the speeding Surcharge !!"
i thought they didn't start adding smog equipment until 1972. what kind of regs were set from 66-71?? THANKS!!!!!
Robert.. I'll definately be back for the M1 tank... :TU: This is a very sad world we now live in.. They used to have terms like, Freedom (in every sense of the term), Choice, & Civil Rights.. Where did they all go? If anyone says "Because of 911 and Terrorism" I'll be forced to come over and remove your ignition coil and snip a few wires. Not to be harsh here, but saying, "Because we're scared now" is a p***y statement. In all the "real" wars we've been in, have we ever been scared enough to throw the constitution out the window? I'll stop and get back on the topic here by saying this.. One newstation here has a report out that says if the weather continues like this, we'll have the best air this state has seen in over 30 years.. And they wanna take us off the road.. BS! Try fixing all the MTA and Redline Buses first, then add on School buses too.. Talk about polluters... :af: I'll step off my soap box now and await some flamage...
Dave - I'm not sure anyone actually disagrees with what you said(I certainly don't!), I think it might be more of a case of disbelief that something so totally absurd and just plain WRONG, is being propagated by the CARB once again!!!ou: :stmad: It's nothing short of mindboggling, the lengths that some of these individuals will go to, to rid the planet of 'these gross polluters'!! I personally have to wonder if it's EVER been about cleaner air.... Seems to me, it's more about making money!! And now...it looks like they're getting an official license to steal!!!:blast: :blast: Who actually puts these clowns in office?? Is it even an elected position?? Sounds to me like there's going to be a full scale 'war' out here!!! I don't see folks just willingly giving up their older vehicles. Kind of makes you wonder...just how many people will end up in jail or dead on this one?!? *Keep us posted on any further developments! This could mark the beginning of the end, as far as us having any kind of personal freedoms! :af:
Nobody's calling you a liar here, Ignitionman. I thought that I at least was pretty clear with what I was trying to say.
Man... All I can say is Thank GOD I live in FL... where the only thing the envirormentalist are concerned about it the "Gators" :Brow: Seriously tho... since this is a Cali only thing I am assuming that "Visitors" wouldn't be subject to the CARB testing. So... If a Cali resident had a really good freind or family who lived out of state, couldn't they have it registered and taged for that state to get around the new statute (assuming this really does happen). My bro Lived in FL for two years with a michigan plate...lol. Renew through mail with a freind who has a MI address... Regardless tho... If this happened I'd be the first on the HWY out of Cali..... Hope you guys are allright out there.
I'm going to attempt to "visit" Nevada in 2003, permanently. I just have this feeling 2004 will be a disaster as far as older cars here are concerned, no help, and when the CARB is finally reversed after some time of ritual clensing of the old vehicles, they will relent and say it was all a mistake, after all the cars are beer cans someplace. Lets get seriouis for a moment, does anybody know or hear of every new law or measure that is enacted or thought up? NO. Since the CARB has a proven track record of deception and deciet, it is no surprize there is no word of this. When the CARB held "public feedback" meetings at their Telstar Avenue, El Monte, California offices and meeting rooms, on smog regulations for older cars, I, and two others, were the only ones to attend, because my CARB friend told me about those meetings beforehand, and that's the ONLY reason any "general public" was there to give "feedback". The CARB would post the notofications for these meetings in the papers the DAY AFTER THE MEETINGS TOOK PLACE, a tactic they still do today. The CARB were engineering the meetings to attempt to prove NOBODY was interested in saving older vehicles, so they could back up their false and trumped up statistics on older car excessive emissions and un-roadworthiness. That would have made their statistics and sugestions for future emissions regs seem squeaky clean to the legislators, Sierra Club militants and those other non-old car "general public" whom blindly believe government on just about anything they can trump up. CARB wants the general public to believe all these older cars of ours are driven 200,000 miles a year, and make all the pollution problems we have, are completely unsafe and dangerous to the public, NONE have been updated with later model more efficient engines, ALL are bad, etc., that's their true aim. AIN'T TRUE, is it! Glad there are SEMA and car club lobbies in the California legislature, or else this CARB "statistics" would have put us off the roads here far sooner than this latest attempt. The way the sysem should be set up for older cars is, loosest spec there was for those older vehicles IS the spec and guideline, and no underhood inspection, just a sniffer test and pass, go, fail, fix it, no fault. Best thing we can do here now is, vote the people that would restrict us even more, out of office and replace them with thinking, common sense people whom won't flop to one side or the other for political party or other reasons, have open minds and ears to the "general public" instead of just themselves and their close pals, will listen to the FACTS and make educated, fair decisions we can ALL live with, and not go off the deep end. California is in BIG budget trouble, from a governor whom has squandered a surplus budget into a very huge deficit trying to make himself look like a hero he isn't, and is now trying to blame his actions that got us here on others. Won't work, Gray, we know better. You need to go away, along with Barbara Boxer and Diane Fienstein, others whom think and operate your old, deceptive ways, and let us just plain live our lives without all your, and CARB's BS.
Well, since this appears to be happening, the most important thing to do (second would be to write your local legislator) is be sure our cars are tuned properly and running clean. Passing the sniffer isn't all that difficult really, and if you can do that, they can't label you a "gross polluter", the visual is a bit of a pain, but as said before hold on to your original air cleaners and such. My 78 Scout II is still under the current smog laws, I take it in every other year and pay my $50 and it passes with flying colors, I've been looking forward to 2008 when it becomes exempt and I can install fuel injection, which would actually make it run cleaner but would not get by the current visual requirements. Makes me sick to think that they might start making us go back to inspections on older vehicles, I intentionally waited for the law to change to buy my 68. Len
To answer the question about when smog laws started, they started in CA in 1966. Cars sold new in CA in 1966 had to have certain equipment, such as an AIR pump, etc. The Federal law came into effect for 1968 cars. It was made stricter for 1972 cars. So, my Baltimore-built, CT-sold 1966 car is totally exempt (at least at the present time), but a similar car sold new in CA was regulated.
SEMA SEMA is extremely active in any auto related legislation. Here is a list of links to recent state issues both resolved and current. Perhaps this can begin to shed some light on some of this.
For those of you with Fastrack or EZpass electronic toll paying devices in your state. The technology is already in place for automatic speed monitoring. Take a look at your bill.... It has the time that you entered the road and the time you exited. All they have to do is use that to calculate your average speed and bang... an automatic speeding ticket. Now they don't use it for that purpose (yet) but it is there and ready. I used to be a regular commuter on the 73 (AKA the Laguna Beach Autobahn) and did the math on my bill once. I had one trip with an average speed of 95mph.... OOPS!!! That is the fastest road I have ever been on. I was routinely passed by high dollar german luxo sedans and sports cars that were traveling at 120+mph. One day I was "poking along" at about 90 when I got passed by a hennesy viper and a 911 turbo that I swear were moving at 140-150mph. :grin: . There is NO way I would ever stop at a roadside sniffer so they could crush my car while I watched. There would have to catch me first. And where exactly would I find the air injection pump and tubes for my 66 340 anyway? the parts probably dissapeared in the 70s off of my car. Hmmm, where does all the smog come from. Here is a hint, there is a 3rd world country 50 miles from my front door. Wonder if I could register my car in mexico???? Rich
