Sonic test I'm not sure about a sonic test to build a 494,Iwas under the assumption that a 4.350(+.038) bore was safe...... 494=4.150 stroke with 4.350 bore. "Hardblok" is alot like mixing concrete,and yes you do go through the water holes in the deck. Take the time and be creative to manipulate the filler into the bottom of the block,you want pour some and tap or vibrate the block so that the filler settles to the bottom. I filled to two inches below the deck,as the filler "set-up" I formed the passage to the water pump holes as they were covered at the level I filled. It's not hard,if you do it,take your time and good luck. Also check the post by Bruce Hunter ("dyno update") He has a 494 that is fairly mild (except compression) and made big dyno #'s.
Re: Sonic test Someone on the old GSCA BB posted a photo of a Buick 494 that broke through one of it's cylinder walls while breaking in the engine on the dyno! :gt: The cylinder wall looked thin. I thought I saved that on my HD, but I can't find it right now. Considering the overall cost of the engine, sonic testing would seem to be money well spent.
Gary I think I've got it now. One thing that I am wondering is do you fill the block with it level on its pan rails allowing the liquid to fill more on the outside of the cylinder where the most stress is or do you lean the block so the deck is level allowing even distribution even cooling? tommieboy You mentioned that the TE's are Stg 3's. Unless I read wrong the TA catalog lists the TE's right after the SE's then the Stg 3's. I was under the assumption that the TE's were Stg 2's. If I am wrong this means the higher dollar rockers too.:eek2: If this comes out right, this should be a picture of my car before I sold it.:ball:
I guess it didn't work. I tried to attach a photo but I guess I didn't do it right. I'll try again. Anybody know how to do this?
Nope, TE's are not Stage-3's. The TE's are similar to the SE's but differ in that the TE's have a raised intake port, hence the need for the SP-2 intake. You can use the TA's Stage-1 / 2 roller rockers with the TE heads. WOW, finally some good news. :grin:
T/A's Block girdle...the best, second to none! Don't be fooled there are other methods such as the beefed up main caps and Postons pan girdle, etc. But when you are going to sink big bucks in a 455 and push the envelope well over the 600 hp AND you are on a limited budget, it is the one to get. I did say limited budget, right? Well building a 9 second engine twice in as many seasons is definately breaking your budget when compared on buying and installing the block girdle, and having that engine last 3 or 4 seasons before you rebuild it for normal maintenance reasons. The block girdle will no doubt extend the reliability of your race engine keeping the short block stable when that flimsy block wants to twist under high loads. It not only gives strength but also stability and longivity to your race engine. Now if your building a street strip type engine, then lower cost methods are available and would make sense. And yes I do know a few guys pushing over 600 hp without using a girdle. Yes the block can handle it, but for how long. Is the saving of not getting one more than redoing another engine? Another reason on using one on the high hp 455 can be a safty one or piece of mind. Case in point and a TRUE story. Back in '97 I had an engine pushing over 600 hp and punched out .060 over:shock: She ran strong and in the 10'0s on a 10.5 inch tire. Well on one particular run the #2 cylinder wall broke above the block fill (had the block short filled w/Hard Block). Well going through the eyes at 6700 rpm's the engine locked in an instant. After damn near soiling my pants and a nice wheel hop at over 127 mph I came to a slow stop. NOT a drop of oil was leaking out of my engine! NO SH%T here! We took the engine apart at the track (intake and heads) well, #2 piston was GONE! Piston rings and small pieces of aluminum was found on the other side of the engine in all of the cylinders. After a tear down the Crower Steel billet rod was jammed in the upstroke position into the inside water jacket lodged under the deck of the engine. The #2 rod was bent across the wide part of the beam, while it was still attached to the crank! End results were 2 wasted rods, one wasted head one wasted block and a broken camshaft along with the torque converter being broken inside from the sudden lock up of the engine. The crankshaft was actually still useable after I had it checked even the oil pan and girdle were undamaged! Had I not been using the girdle the rod after jamming itself on the upstroke would have not bent, as it would have forced everything downward no doubt breaking the main webs sending everything out the oil pan. That would have been a huge distaster while doing 127 mph! The block girdle not only saved most of the engine parts it most likely save me from possibly kissing the wall at the end of the quarter from sliding on oil. So when I hear someone asking about a block girdle because they are building a 600 plus 455 say .030 or more over, I say bite the bullet and buy it and have it installed by a good machine shop and be done with it. Think of it as an insurance policy and piece of mind. One last remark here. My new 455 was the pick of a litter of 6 blocks that all were sonic tested. Highly recomended if you have more than one block to choose from. Borrow them and have them all sonic tested and pick the best one. I had my new one bored .040 over and of course still used the same block girdle that was on my old engine along with the same oil pan. The girdle still bears a scar (small dent) on the inside rail. But it withstood the engine explosion and didn't warp or bend. Rick
When you fill a block with hard block, what is a safe depth to fill to before you run into overheating problems due to lack of enough coolant in the block?
Re: Re: Sonic test Jack Haeffner just resent me the photo along with the following info: Tom here is a picture of the block that mike is refering to in the topic: Maximum Boring 455 . If i knew how to post a picture i would post it! The block was bored to 4.350 . We ran the engine on the dyno and the very first pull the #4cyl. blew into the water jacket just above the hardblock. Had to install sleeves on #4 and #6cyls. Had extensive work done to block! Girdle and oil mods. Note: Did not hurt pistons or rings used all parts over. We repaired engine and done 14 dyno pulls up to 7450rpm. engine made 713hp. Ran at this years nationals in gs pro street went 10.50 & 10.60 engine runs perfect. At Gateway Dragstrip the car ran 10.44 @ 129+mph. Would have been better to sonic check block. Live and learn only been building buick engines for 30+yrs. This is the first block that i have any problem with! The above engine was in Steve Steele's copper GS. Feel free to post picture if you know how. Jack Haeffner Jack, thanks for sharing the photo and info. :TU:
Reynold: You want to make sure the deck is level both fore and aft and side to side so that the Hardblok is 2" from the deck at all four corners. For a block drain you can add a small rubber hose through the drain hole and run it up through the Hardblok to the deck. Spray it with dry teflon spray and then just remove it when its set.
Tommie Like they say,"LIve and Learn",I geuss I've been lucky so far.Like I said I thought 4.350 was safe in all cases.I'll SONIC TEST my next motor....:TU:
Geez, you sure know how to make a guy feel good. My '70 SF block is girdled, but I was under the impression 4.35 was safe in all cases too. Now I'm wondering if I should tear it down and have it checked.....:ball:
Am I the only guy without a girdle & no hardblock? No problem yet,but I know I don't make anywhere near the # of passes most of you do.:jd:
I don't know him that well but Joe Chuba makes pretty good power w/o a girdle,he "pins" the main caps. His car goes mid 9's,HP probably in the 700/725 range. Not to mention this is one of the nicest racecars you'll ever see.(blue '69,backhalf car)
I have a girdle too Here a picture of the TA girdle installed enjoy (BTW its for sale as you see it ready to assemble email me if interested)
Nope. :gt: But I'm not making the hp/torque #'s alot of you guys are either. I just don't have much car to push........
Hi Guys, I, myself use BOTH the Hard-Blok and TA girdle for the extra peace-of-mind!! So, I agree with all who stated to use the TA girdle!! It's a FEW extra bucks but in the long run you WILL definately be glad you did!! Plus an added benefit that I do not believe I seen posted elsewhere is the FACT that it moves the pan (and especially the oil) further away from the rotating assembly and that will throw a couple of extra additional horses in the mix too. :TU: Also.......when I grenaded my last 464 Stage3, and a TA 4340 billet rod let go at about 7500rpm it REALLY tore the internals out (if I could figure out how to post images I would show a couple of pic's). BUT the TA girdle survived with only a few "battle scars" and is currently be used for the Procharger build-up 475 cuber! From my experience with the TA girdle, that sucker is most likely indestuctable!!!:TU: Hope this is of SOME help.......
