Big fire: Notre Dame, Paris (France)

Discussion in 'The Bench' started by Bad Boattail, Apr 15, 2019.

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  1. 1972Mach1

    1972Mach1 Just some M.M.O.G. guy.....

    I, too, am afraid of it being arson. From what I've read they're investigating right now, but there was a bunch of restoration work happening already, so they were thinking it might have been an accident from that. As was stated, no matter what you believe, it is a horrible loss for us as human beings.
     
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  2. rmstg2

    rmstg2 Gold Level Contributor

    According to the news this morning a lot of the artifacts were saved, hopefully this is true!

    Bob H.
     
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  3. Luxus

    Luxus Gold Level Contributor

    I heard a lot of good news about the cathedral. Much of it is intact, it's very far away from a total loss. They also saved a lot of artifacts while they were still fighting the fire. They will rebuild what was damaged.
     
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  4. Topcat

    Topcat Got TORQUE?

    They said all the workers had left for the night.......you would surely think that they would have had after hours security covering the job site.........just so nobody gets hurt if they sneak in after hours......this really does not add up to me.....
    Peace WildBill
     
  5. yachtsmanbill

    yachtsmanbill Well-Known Member

    At least a fire watch if any hot work was being done. Crap, I do my own several times in the evening if I've done any welding or grinding in the shop.... even a smouldering oily rag does wonders! Anyone ever worry about rags and spontaneous combustion? I do. I spread them out to dry overnight, or even outside. ws
     
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  6. FJM568

    FJM568 Well-Known Member

    The biggest problem they're going to have with the restoration is just that, size. The trees(timbers) that they used for the roof(rafters, supports, trusses, etc, whatever you want to call them) just don't exist in the size that they need. They may be able to "make do with what they've got", but it won't be the same.
     
  7. Duane

    Duane Member

    I heard on the radio this morning that according to the official broadcast the fire was started accidentally. This is not the first time this type of thing has happened, especially with very dry old timber.
    Either way it is a shame, but am glad they will re-build.

    Maybe they will install a sprinkler system in the re-build so this type of thing does not happen again. Some of the ways they sprinkler the old Historic buildings is amazing, you can't hardly see the heads even if you know where to look. We did the Old Pennsylvania Capital Building, and the heads in the lower rooms/hallways were put inside the wide crown moldings. After installation artisans came back, cleaned up all the penetrations, and then gold leafed them. Once done, from 16 feet up I could not even see the heads.
    Duane
     
  8. Brad Conley

    Brad Conley RIP Staff Member

    You all must understand, this is what Duane does for a living, design fire suppression systems, sprinklers to you and I. I understand he does a pretty good job of it too. ;)
     
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  9. BUICKRAT

    BUICKRAT Got any treats?

    Actually, numerous churches in France have been torched and vandalized within the last few months. Radical islam is 'having its way' in France and other European countries due to immigration issues. Coming soon to a theatre near you!
     
  10. Prairie Piston

    Prairie Piston Well-Known Member

    Awesome Duane to meet a fellow fire sprinkler designer in the group. It was my first thought as well that these historical structures should all be sprinklered but I guess it takes events like this to put things in motion unfortunately
     
  11. Topcat

    Topcat Got TORQUE?

    You are absolutely right sir....an overnight fire watch should have been in place for a job like that....hell, the brewery i work at had their towel barrel catch on fire overnight because they were using too much detergent,running too big of loads and not drying them totally......something stinks about this whole situation.....i hope the French will look at this event VERY closely.....

    Peace WildBill
     
  12. My3Buicks

    My3Buicks Buick Guru

    FACTS PLEASE? FACT - Yes, anti-Christian/anti organized religion has risen sharply in the last few years in France but only on a few very right wing based reports has the blame been laid at Radical Islam - there is a strong anti-church/Christian movement in France that has nothing to do with Islam. There is little doubt radical Islam has been involved as well, but lets not play the paint with a broad stroke brush with the blame game without some fact other than far right wing articles as basis for content
     
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  13. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    Most of that building is stone.. what was really lost was the roof and the spire.. As usual, the news has this overblown. I am sure it will be rebuilt as good as new, maybe even better, considering the advances in construction that has occurred in the last 800 years. They can make brand new wood "look old" these days, I would be surprised if this ends up being more than a footnote in Notre Dame's history. The fear of fire was a big deal back when this was built, we must remember that this place was originally lit with torches.. That is one of the reasons it's built in stone, and took over 100 years to build, 800 years ago.

    As to the source, it's likely due to the resto work that was going on, I heard today that they had two fire alarms actually go off, the first one was investigated and nothing was seen, the second one went off when it was already out of control. Also heard a report that it took two hours for the fire guys to get there and fully set up... they did seem fairly powerless to do anything but watch it burn, but I am no fire fighter, so maybe that is just the way it is with these big old buildings.

    I will say that this is pretty coincidental... but I will refrain from the conspiracy theories..

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...-accused-over-foiled-terror-attack/ar-BBVT5nJ

    JW
     
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  14. 66electrafied

    66electrafied Just tossing in my nickel's worth

    The spire is a fairly new rebuild anyway, so no "real" loss. It was re-erected in the 1880s after a public drive to rebuild the thing was completed. The whole cathedral had fallen into disrepair during the French Revolution and the original spire was taken down shortly before 1789 because it was deemed "unsound". The roof structure was for the most part original; the rafters dated back to the 13th century, - those will be impossible to replace, but with modern construction methods, foolhardy to replace in original material. They'd be best off to use the light-weight concrete preformed casts like they've used on so many old buildings in Germany; - sure, it's not "authentic", but the reality of life in Europe is that not much really is, because of the countless wars and desecration that has taken place for hundreds of years. So in the scheme of things, this is a minor set-back; they've managed to save or salvage most of the treasures and the building itself is still sound. They'll rebuild it, and in 5 years you'll never know this fire even happened.
    And now we wait; and hopefully they'll conclusively find the cause of this mess, and if it's human-sourced, punish those who are guilty. But rather than jump to conclusions about suspected motives or plots, it's best to wait until there are some facts.
    They pay good money to get quality people to investigate these things, let's wait and see what they come up with.
     
  15. BUICKRAT

    BUICKRAT Got any treats?

    Funny, somehow I knew you were going to have to say something about my post. You wouldn't be so easily trolled if you just quit stalking me. BTW, what I posted is fact, do your own research.
     
  16. Smokey15

    Smokey15 So old that I use AARP bolts.

    Thus far, over a billion dollars has been raised, from around the world, to rebuild. I wonder if there was any insurance policy on the building or contents as well?
     
  17. 2manybuicks

    2manybuicks Founders Club Member

    See how easy it is to make this bull**** up? All I need to do is post it to 4chan with a blurry photo of "claude Omarson" at WTC and Notre Dame and

    awaaaay we go!
     
  18. Smokey15

    Smokey15 So old that I use AARP bolts.

    All I know is that I has nothing to do with the fire. Investigators said "Accidental". I'll take their word for it. Before the thread gets shut down.
     
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  19. Brad Conley

    Brad Conley RIP Staff Member

    I'd hate to have that one on my books. That one would bankrupt any company. But the more important thing is no loss of life. Stuff can be rebuilt, even old stuff.
     
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  20. 2manybuicks

    2manybuicks Founders Club Member

    I honestly doubt they will ever establish a true cause. The whole bloody roof dropped 150 (?) feet to the floor of the cathedral. Makes it very hard to establish where the fire started, especially when cords, cigarette butts, etc. are wholly consumed.

    To me, Occam's Razor says there are two possible causes:
    1) Frenchy discarding a cigarette butt while working on renovations (almost definitely a no-smoking policy, but we all now how that works.)
    2) A frayed or overloaded electrical cord (frayed cords happen, sometimes without anyone noticing.) (and people love to plug umpteen items into one cord, no matter how often you lecture them.)

    Welding or cutting spark? Possibly, but THAT I would think would be very strictly controlled.

    Arson? In the US when someone wants to burn down a church, they splash gas around around the outside and light it up so they can get away. Or maybe set fire to the altar or the torah or what have you if they are feeling bolder. No one climb 25 feet into the attic to start a fire.

    And Notre Dame aint no run-of-the-mill one-story building. Someone would have had to evade Notre Dame security, climb way way way up the stairs, ladders, etc. into the attic, set a fire, and then climb way way way down, all without been noticed. Possible, but really?
     
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