Big Block MGB

Discussion in 'Street/strip 400/430/455' started by Jim Blackwood, Apr 6, 2007.

  1. Jim Blackwood

    Jim Blackwood Well-Known Member

    In May I am stepping down as President of BADASS so that others can take over the scheduling of the promotional activities of the car and the project. I feel it is in the best interest of the continued survival of the organization. Bill Young has stepped up to run the scheduling and will be my recommendation for the new President. He is currently in charge of the car's appearances from May onward, but is not a member of this board so anyone who wants to keep up with it will need to surf over to the BritishV8 board forums. We will make an effort to appear at Bowling Green, assuming we get the dates correct.

    Bill is making every reasonable attempt to get the car into the hands of all who contributed to the build but he is dependent on those contributors to inform him of shows and events in their range of travel to coordinate transportation from contributor to contributor. To make this happen you need to post here:
    http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?2,27457,page=4
    or contact Bill directly.

    As the primary major contributor to and sponsor of the project, I can say that the experience has been a personally rewarding one. We set out to do wonderful new things and we succeeded well beyond anyone's wildest imagining. Without a doubt the best part of the entire project was the way the contributors and participants came closer together and helped each other, forming new friendships in the process. There may have been a few lesser contributors who ended up feeling left out but only because they made no effort to be involved. For most it has been a richly rewarding five years, and is far from over. The car will most likely be on the road for the next 3 to 5 years at a minimum, and considering the rave reviews we've had from our drivers so far it is entirely possible we may keep it going indefinitely. The car is just that much fun to drive.

    So the next time you guys get to joking about putting a Big Block Buick engine in some car that it obviously doesn't belong in, just bear in mind that somebody, somewhere along the line, might just take you seriously and make it happen in a much much better way than anyone could have possibly dreamed. We did.

    Jim
     
  2. SpecialWagon65

    SpecialWagon65 Ted Nagel

    Hi Jim, great to see the project really looking great. Id like to know about this Spurious Gathering- and see the Roadmaster MGB
    Ted
     
  3. Jim Blackwood

    Jim Blackwood Well-Known Member

    Well Ted, consider yourself invited. Just find your way to 9406 Gunpowder Rd in Florence on the
    Saturday a week from now (25th) and you'll meet a bunch of great car enthusiasts and very likely get to drive the car.

    Jim
     
  4. Jim Blackwood

    Jim Blackwood Well-Known Member

    The gathering went well. Today the car goes to Johnson City, TN. It will be prominently featured at The Mitty, look for the Grassroots Motorsports tent.

    Jim
     
  5. alan

    alan High-tech Dinosaur

    The GS Nats in Bowling Green, KY will probably be my only chance to see the car, hope to see it there!
     
  6. D-Con

    D-Con Kills Rats and Mice

    So Jim, didn't this in part come about because in all of the discussions about building a SBB, with the repeated echo of, "just use a 455," right? If so, I think you have proven that the addage continues to be true! :Do No:

    Now that you have done it, what kind of comparison can you share with us between this car and your own supercharged SBB car?
     
  7. Jim Blackwood

    Jim Blackwood Well-Known Member

    A very good question Adam. While I will be better able to make a good comparison after the 340 car is finished later this year, I can give you a comparison to the blown 215. They are very different cars.

    The GT (455 car) in every way epitomizes the ideal of "Grand Turismo". I do not honestly think a better MGB could be built for long distance travel, unless you were to fit it with cruise control and possibly an automatic transmission. Most would consider that last suggestion a heresy, but honestly, the car has so much torque that it really does not care what gear you are in anyway so an automatic would be fine. The only thing you would be giving up is some compression braking which is already so effective that you tend to not downshift when you otherwise would. But the impression that literally leaps out at you is just how easy the car is to drive. First timers are greatly intimidated until they've gotten the feel of the car, at which point they are just amazed with it. The power is always there like some great hidden underground river you can tap into at any time, yet the throttle is so progressive that you really have to intend to use it. Once you do the car hooks up surprisingly well and just goes like stink. But up to that point, everything is just easy. It is almost impossible to stall the engine. If anything isn't right on launch you can just take your foot off the gas and let it settle back down, even on a steep hill. It will start in 2nd as easily as 1st. 3rd is no problem. 4th gets a slight complaint. I didn't try 5th but I'm sure it will handle it. It is supremely happy cruising at 80 and settles right in, mellows out, quiets down and hums. Yet any need for passing speed is but a throttle push away. 4th gear downshift to pass is something that simply has to be experienced to be believed. It does little good to try to describe it. Sort of like going into warp drive.

    The car also corners extremely well. Despite the extra weight up front, (over a hundred pounds undoubtedly but certainly less than 200, we will have corner weights by summer) it turns in very quickly. One MGB race car driver who took the GT on track and was very surprised and impressed with its handling commented that it was almost too quick. Naturally we considered that a great compliment.

    With the front air bags and long travel Jag IRS the car rides like a much larger vehicle while still retaining the road feel the MGB was famous for. The handling feel is a hybrid of sorts. Much smoother overall and less upset by road irregularities but the grip is not lessened. Eventually we will get some timed laps where I expect to see some very good time figures. Obviously the generous power will play into this.

    So how does it compare? Well the 215 was pushing 16+ psi of intercooled boost with EFI so it too was a very powerful motor, and had the ability to create wheelspin at freeway speeds. But even so I'd have to give the edge to the big block just on the strength of that 4th gear downshift to pass. (although personally I've only done it once) How much of an edge I really can't say, or how the blown 340 will compare, though I expect that to be closer and indeed the 340 may have the edge, depending on boost level. But just off idle there is simply no comparison whatsoever with the blown 215. That is where those big inches are the most obvious. While the 215 could never have been considered anything close to a high strung engine by contemporary standards, this big lazy lug in the GT made it look like a tightrope act by comparison. That big lug just sort of sits there humming a happy tune. "You want what? Oh. OK. Here it is. Tum-de-dum. Whatever." Indifferent almost. Never straining, never making an effort, always there, always up to the task. What more could you ask for?

    But it is not a simple or easy matter to just drop a BBB into an MGB. The level of difficulty is not extreme, and not any worse than doing a SBF swap if you know what to do, but it does require modification of the steering and firewall, and then there are the mods needed to fit that oversized radiator. I would consider it more of a higher end swap. Someone with skills could do it on a budget over time, but the "proper" way to do this swap is the way we have done it here with the upgrades to suspension, drivetrain, brakes, cooling, and bodywork. The ultimate would include the new TA aluminum block of course, but the SE heads are mandatory in any case.

    All in all, an exercise in taking a good car and making it much, MUCH better. However, the 300 SBB is a very easy swap by comparison to any standards, even the now popular 60 degree GM V6, and gives many of the benefits of the BBB swap at a much lower cost while being much more easily and quickly done, with no need for fabrication. Considering that engine can be easily stroked out to 350cid and has performance alloy heads available from TA, I recommend that engine as a first choice to most. The big block is only for a select few. Not many of them will be built, and they will be in an elite category.

    Jim
     
  8. D-Con

    D-Con Kills Rats and Mice

    Very interesting. I would have thought it would be an evil-handling beast, and it would have been without your upgrades I'm sure. More gear and a larger cam might make it feel more like a normal car? :Brow: except maybe for 200 mph top-end.

    Now that you've done one (recognizing not at all by yourself), I am sure the next would be a little better and much easier for you. Probably easier on the brain than your current 340 project, but after enjoying your posts over the years I am sure you do them for the challenge and experimentation in engineering, and since you've already done a 455...onward and upward. I look forward to reading the progress on the 340 car.
     
  9. Jim Blackwood

    Jim Blackwood Well-Known Member

    What we've found, is that a hundred pounds extra on the front of the car is not noticeable at all. It would take the most finely tuned race driver on the most demanding course to even be able to identify it. Here the extra weight is also offset by an extra 60 lbs or so at the rear (the IRS) and that contributes greatly to the neutral handling, but even without it the car would handle well. Of course a stock rear axle would not last long. But it would last long enough to do the build in stages if necessary, and stock axles are cheap. The biggest problem by far is in gear ratios. It can cost less to upgrade the axle than it does to change the ratio.

    It would be relatively easy to build another car with stock suspension and just an axle upgrade. It would sit a half to three quarters of an inch low in front which is manageable, and other springs are available. It requires log type tubing exhaust manifolds to be made, not a particularly hard job and I do have an extra set of flanges and a template. The rest is straightforward enough once you know what to do. The challenge was in sorting it all out the first time. I wouldn't mind building another car, but if I had my druthers I'd buy the engine from one of our established builders, buy the Fast Cars IFS, either buy and install a 3 or 4 link axle upgrade or build another Jag IRS, make the body mods and get a shop to do the finish, paint and interior, and just do the install. It would not be a cheap build, but it would be an extremely good one.

    The interesting thing is that the 340 install required almost the exact same engine bay modifications as the BBB. The only real difference was in the lower tunnel on the driver's side where the BBB requires more room. Other than that they are almost interchangeable so once you have the 340 or 350 fitted in the BBB will go without much more trouble. But again, since this requires the steering rack to be relocated and mods to the lower control arms, the 300 is usually a much better choice.

    Jim
     
  10. Jim Blackwood

    Jim Blackwood Well-Known Member

    The car is now in Kingsport, TN. I know we have at least one member of this board in Johnson City which is right there. Carl will be hitting some of the local shows for the next couple of weeks before it goes to Lugoff, SC for the following month. Plans have been made for it to appear prominently at The Mitty in Atlanta right next to the Grassroots Motorsports tent, after which it will be at the Blount County British Car meet near Townsend, TN. Then we have the BritishV8 meet in Palestine, TX followed by the Hot Rod Power Tour from Detroit back down to Texas, with more to follow.

    Over the course of the next 3-5 years we expect to send the car all over the country. Literally. Bill Young (in the St Louis area) is in charge of the schedule and has the GS Nationals in Bowling Green on the table if there is a way to fit it into the schedule. None of us have been there or know anything about it, but we will do our best.

    Jim
     
  11. Jim Blackwood

    Jim Blackwood Well-Known Member

    GT is now in Lugoff, SC
     
  12. Jim Blackwood

    Jim Blackwood Well-Known Member

    The car will be at The Mitty at Road Atlanta, parked right next to the Grassroots Motorsports tent and in the Paddock at night. Be a great chance to see it and possibly go for a ride.

    Jim
     
  13. GS Jim

    GS Jim Platinum Level Contributor

    Job Well Done Jim. What else is there to say? I've been following this Post with interest and I'm glad you finally have it all together. Congrats!!!:TU:
    PONCH
     
  14. Jim Blackwood

    Jim Blackwood Well-Known Member

    Thanks Ponch. Dan Masters took the car to Townsend, TN to the Blount county British sports car club's annual show, where it got rave reviews. Then he and Jim Watson took it and Dan's gorgeous green SBF MGB-GT to the big annual Knoxville Hot Rod run where the pair pretty much stole the show.

    Today the car is on its way to Palestine, TX for the annual BritishV8 meet at the Hampton Inn, piloted by Jim Watson. If you are in the area, do stop by. The majority of these cars run Buick engines or Buick variants (Rover), so there is definitely some kinship and the crowd is very accepting of strangers.

    Jim
     
  15. GS Jim

    GS Jim Platinum Level Contributor

    Jim, Thank's for the invite but I'm in Linden South of Flint. I dont get out much. I have a 15 Mo. old Granddaughter in Chi that I cant bring myself to go see. I really gets to me.
    PONCH
     
  16. Jim Blackwood

    Jim Blackwood Well-Known Member

    Sorry to hear that. Well, in a couple weeks it'll be in the Hot Rod Power Tour, going to Detroit, Muskegon and points south. Maybe you can make it then.

    Also, that was a general invite to anyone who wants to see the car. And you can trust me, it IS worth seeing. If you ask you'll probably get a ride, and MAY even get to drive.

    Jim
     
  17. RD929

    RD929 Well-Known Member

    Looks incredible.
    Sent the pics to my buddy in Chicago area who would definitely appreciate this more than me. He's a MASSIVE MG and Triumph guy, has a whole garage full of em and knows them inside and out.

    Love the star wars cleaner through the roof. Makes me kind of want a GT now haha.
     
  18. Jim Blackwood

    Jim Blackwood Well-Known Member

    The Power Tour is finished and the car is in Texas. We had info/photo sessions with two of the Hot Rod folks, Mike Finnegan and a Photog named Iana so maybe we'll get some good press. Be watching for it in upcoming issues. Jim
     
  19. GS Jim

    GS Jim Platinum Level Contributor

    Hi Jim. I said Congrats on getting your MG in Hot Rod Magazine this Month in a different post. I hope you get this One. Very Cool B.A.D.A.S.S. Car.

    PONCH
     
  20. Aaron65

    Aaron65 Well-Known Member

    Saw the car in Hot Rod...cool!
     

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