Guys and Gals, I know I have preached this in the past. Even had a few conversations with T/A Mike about the crap that we have to install our camshafts with. If you are EVER installing a camshaft PLEASE have a qualified person degree in the camshaft or you will be loosing power. Now.. here is my strory. I decided to make a camshaft change recently. I am currently running the T/A 508s which is 272 @ .050 on both intake and exhaust on a 108 lobe center. With the help of my friend Andy Miller (Oldsmobile guy) we decided to go with a 265/272 cam on a larger 110 Lobe seperation. This cam was custom ground by Cam Motion and put on a cam doctor before I received it. We specifically asked to have the cam ground with only 1 degree advance. The readings from the cam doctor verified that the cam is very close to what we asked for in all areas. So.... Dad and I tried to install this cam using one of the Roll Master timing chain sets. Our goal is to have this cam installed with the intake center line at 109. Only one degree advance. SO.... we may as well start at 0 advance or retard on the lower gear. Below are the results!!!! Keep in mind... we are looking for a 109 intake center line!!!! Crank Gear ICL 0 117 +2 115 +4 113 +6 111 +8 109 Waaa La.... the magic number is +8 advance to get the ICL at 109.... Which is ONLY 1 degree advanced. Does anyone out there know if there has been any retooling to help correct this issue? I have seen this over and over again with our cams and timing chain sets. So again.... Dont put that cam in unless you are going to degree it in correctly. Before I close this engine I am going to degree the cam in using the 3 key way sets. If I remember correctly the 3 key way set is closer than the one that I am using. Thanks for listening :ball: :ball:
John, I have not yet seen a single rollmaster that was not 4 degrees retarded. So by you being a t plus 8 , you are really only plus 4 degrees. What I expect you'll find on the 3 keyway set is that zero is pretty much zero, the plus 4 degree mark is more like plus 7 or 8 , and the minus 4 degree mark is more like minus 7 or 8 degrees. I just used one recently and that is what I found... Jim Burek P.A.E ENTERPRISES
What is best timing set to use then. I can't see why one of our Buick suppliers could not make this valuable item to the exacting specs we desire. I feel we would pay more if we had the accuracy needed.I know I would.Degreeing a cam really confuses me at present as it does a few others I imagine.
Mine is Good My Rollmaster is right on the money. The 3 key timing set was what was messed up. "0" was "0" but the "+" and "-" were both retard the same and I need 4 degrees advanced. It's all just race car parts, nothings a "bolt-on" as advertised. :blast:
Rick, If your rollmaster is right on the money then your camshaft has about 6-8 degrees advance built into the cam. If you ever get the chance take a stock crankshaft gear and hold it up to the roll master. You will find that its about 1/2 a tooth off. I am guessing when this gear was designed the designer retarted the gear to match our camshafts that have advance built into them. Just guessing as I said. Or maybe this item has been redesigned??? If it has been someone please let me know and I will go out and buy a new one!!! I am willing to bet that 70% of the Buick engines out there have the cam installed incorrectly. I have personally gone over to Buick friends houses and checked there cams for free just so they dont put it in wrong. One other note.... I have really been looking into this camshaft thing lately. From what I am learning.... A cam should never be more than two degrees advanced. If it is then you need a smaller camshaft. Thanks
I am willing to bet that 70% of the Buick engines out there have the cam installed incorrectly. I have personally gone over to Buick friends houses and checked there cams for free just so they dont put it in wrong. This would explain some of the sorry running Buicks I've seen before.NO,you don't need a Dominator and a TA intake to go 12's:eek2: W/O degreeing a cam you can easily be giving up 30-50 HP,I would say that between this and improper timing curves in the distributor contribute to "lackluster perfomance"for many. John When you trying the new cam?
Camshaft Your probably right about the cam. The timing set is probably off. I'm running a TA roller cam and I'm not going to say how "well" it was cut. Lets just say I can't wait to compair it to another roller. The cam works though but I think the car would run better with a "better" ground cam. There's a couple of guys with extra cams on the self but they won't let them go. I don't want to pay for a new roller unless I know it would run better.
Asking for anyone's opinions here... I decided to take a gamble and follow what my computer told me would be better in my 492 stage 2. TA 308s ground on 112 LCA (for nitrous use) and installed with intake CL @ 112 deg. Has anybody tried anthing like that before?
Hi Adam, I have decided to put my 308s back in my 13.3:1 motor with the stage2 SE heads. I have not run it yet and may push the pistons off the buick rods and run the TA rods. Running out of money and the assembly is balanced with the buick rods. Mike at TA thinks the 304s would run better on my motor since my exhaust flows 257 cfm. I not running nitrous. I would just worry about the cylendar pressure and splitting the wall. My buddy just got the 442 cui nitrous motor back from G&G. Lower the top ring for nitrous and really thick walls at the rat 4.25 standard bore size. We plan on running a 112 center line cam in this motor. When are you planning to have your motor running?
Dave, how the heck are ya? Boy, that "running" part is the $26,000 question! I just got asked to work in Chile for the winter, so that puts things back a bit. I'm hoping Mike T will get time to do the 64-67 headers up so I can buy a set and put the stage 2 in my skylark this spring. Otherwise I still have to build a chassis for the engine (started on a T sedan, altered style) or put it back in the '50 Olds and finish that. Boy, someday I'll get more focused.... As it sits now, the cam is in and degreed, the front cover on. I have to put the intake and valvetrain back together and build an oil pan for it. I have what I think is an old TA pan, but am going to try something more radical with full-length sump and louvered windage try. I'll take some pics if it works out right. By the way, the 304 looked better on dynomation when nitrous isn't factored in. and that is with my exhaust flowing 230 cfm. I think TA must be having real good results with that cam in the stage 2 engines, as that is what Mike T recommended to me without considering nitrous, I almost wish I had bought that one. For whatever reason, Dynomation liked LOTS of LCA with both cams too, like 116. I couldn' t convince myself to believe it so compromised at 112, which the nitrous should like. That motor of yours should REALLY like the juice with all of that exhaust flow, though the extra duration on the 308 exhaust might bleed off a little sooner than you need. o No:
