Anyone gone Distributorless?

I have a really odd idea for you. How bout just making a bent bracket similar to the stock accessory mounting brackets?

Have a flat plate that bolts right up against the block and comes forward towards the radiator (basically an L shape like the brackets that hold up shelves).

Then at the front of the bracket have the side towards the crank wheel bend up into the position needed for the sensor (basically before the bending of the plate it'll look straight but with 1 side having extra material sticking out an inch or so which will end up being bent upwards).

Then just weld a rod or triangluar piece between the upturned side and the flat bottom to prevent flexing. You could even weld some rod along the edge of the flat base as a ridge to provide extra strength without increasing the overall size (kinda like beadrolling sheet metal).

If it's hard to understand I can draw up something with MS Paint of how it should look at the different stages of construction to give you an idea.

 

I'm looking back at all the brackets we ever made to hold sensors on the engine and we always used 2 bolts so the bracket cannot turn with engine vibration.

I'm looking at the pictures and notice that addition nearby bolts appear to be on different levels.

The box is a very rigid design and does allow you to use a long bolt that is easy to get to with a wrench.
Would it be possible to weld a small plate off the box to catch the bolt that appears to be about half way up the box near the timing bracket?

 

Oooh, I like the idea of a locating piece that will give the support something to push against when tightening down while keeping it angled right. And you are right about only having a single bolt hole being the hang up. It's just a matter of I can't weld aluminum, but that doesn't stop me from screwing and glueing (that sounds dirty and show's I'm a hack :idea2: ).

bammax, I get what you are saying, perhaps on both sides of the plate I could weld a ridge, or perhaps even just a simple bead of weld would be sufficient, to firm up the first design. I can do that with the existing one I have pictured. If that works perhaps I can tack on a piece that locks it against the timing cover like pmuller9 suggest.

Thanks for the ideas guys!

 

After screwing and glueing, and you get everything just right, can you take it to someone and have it welded?

Paul

 

Probably. The last local welder I used I wasn't too happy with, so I'd have to track down another one. I wonder if I could take it over to our welding department at work....


**I noticed in the picture, I made another revision after these pictures were taken that I apparently forgot to take a picture of, but I doubled up the angle aluminum piece to stiffen it up and ground the ends flush with the other piece.

 

Round 3!

Stacked two pieces together and added an angle piece on the other side to push against the fuel pump to keep vibration from rotating the bracket, plus it's something to push against as I tighten it down to keep the angle right. I also notched the ends so the washers locate themselves and center the bolt.


When I settle on a design I'll make a cleaner one and take it to work to see if I can get it TIG'd together, so no screws, etc.


I think I'm going to go to a threaded stud for lateral adjustability. It seems when I notched the tubing, the slight amount of thickness reduction was enough for the bolt to bottom out before tightening up on the tube. No big deal, I just used a wrench on the nut and tightened it back up against the tube and it was rock solid again. You can see how straight I cut things =P


From above. The locating tab against the fuel pump.


From way above.


Thoughts??

 

When you are finished and get all the dimensions right, our shop could make the final piece.

We would use solid hex stock, face off both ends in the lathe and drill the center for the bolt.
Then weld on the sensor tab with a slotted hole for lateral adjustment.

Paul

 

Thanks for the offer. I think I'm going to try and get the weld shop here at work to weld one together for me. I won't need the bottom hanging off the sensor holding box tube if it's welded on. It's mostly hidden at the bottom of the engine, but if I can keep the vise teeth from chewing on the aluminum too bad or buff it out it won't look to bad if I take a bit of time to really straighten and clean up my cuts.

 

Ok, I'm going to yell at you for a second.



Why don't you elongate that top pad, spin it 90*, and bolt it on using the bolt next to the timing tab? That'll provide a second mounting point at a different plane which will prevent shifting or bouncing.

Remember while it may be fine in the driveway, if you hit a construction zone at 40 things move around an awful lot.

 

It's a pretty good idea, but I can't recall specifically, but doesn't that bolt go into the water jacket? I just got a full dose of antifreeze in the car (supposed to hit 22*F Wed!) and really don't want to open up the cooling system. The aluminum has a pretty low inertia load for 3 inches of length, it's not going to wobble much. I keyed the washers in to keep the tube from wobbling on the bolt.

 

You could just notch the center of the tab to form a U shape and slide it up under the bolt head, than retorque the bolt down again. That way the bolt is only being backed off a fraction of an inch (just slightly more than the thickness of the tab)

I'm overly cautious and would hate to see what would happen at 3k rpms if that sensor stops getting an accurate signal all of a sudden. What exactly would happen if that sensor stopped reading at that rpm?

 

Engine simply dies like turning the key off, it'll cut the fuel and ignition. The ECU see's no rpm then it won't fire the injectors or command spark. It'd be less dramatic than when my alternator belt snapped and took out the power feed to the HEI, cause it still had a tach signal the injectors continued to fire throwing raw fuel in the hot headers at WOT at 6,000rpm, D'oh!

 

So it's more annoying than anything if the sensor loses its signal. That's a little more reassuring. I wasn't sure if it was using a crank sensor in tandem with a cam sensor or if it was using them seperately to control fuel and spark independant of each other. I've seen efi systems set up in many ways depending on the programming requirements. It's amazing the stuff you can do with junkyard parts and enough knowledge to be dangerous :grin:

 

I don't have a cam sensor, no need with out sequential EFI, though I may use a GN sensor/oil pump drive at some point in the future, just not have it plugged in.

The big "fear" is if the sensor comes loose the clearance between the sensor and the trigger wheel is close, so if it rotates the trigger wheel will likely tag and destroy the sensor, and this sensor isn't an off the shelf part (one reason I may find something else...). But if that failure does occur I can plug the tach signal wire back into my distributor pickup coil and with a few key strokes on the key board be on the road again. I don't leave town with out my laptop so no worry there (or ten minutes on the internet on a borrowed laptop then out to the car).

I know just enough to be dangerous :Brow: haha.

 

Made up my semi-permanent crank trigger mount. This is a newly made one not the other one riveted together. I'll use this one until I make another one up to be welded together. Hopefully tomorrow I get the engine running off the crank trigger.

 

Looking better!

Who's sensor are you using?

Paul

 

I'm going to make up another bracket and mail it off to a friend of mine that'll tig it together and mail it back, should be about $10 round trip

My EFI guy gave it to me at Drag Week, the brand name is Cherry, I'd have to look up the part number, and don't really know where to buy one. I am a little leery about using it since it's not an off the auto parts store shelf part, but I do prefer a hall sensor over the stock Ford Escort VR sensor (matches the trigger wheel) I was going to use. Worse case, for as long as I have the distributor in there if something happens to the sensor I can plug the tach wire back into the pickup coil in the distributor.

 

It is a Cherry GS100502.
http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/sensors/Speed_Direction/gs1005_1009.htm

Make sure the MegaSquirt circuitry is supplying the correct pull-up resistor between the brown and black sensor leads (as shown in the sensor block diagram).

You can buy the sensor from any of the online electronic suppliers but Digikey is one of the cheapest.
I make most of my electronic purchases from Digikey.

http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/948929-sensor-geartooth-speed-alum-m12-gs100502.html

Paul

 

Cheap and functional, that sounds about right, LOL. I'm going to be using a switched positive 12V (probably the same power feed as the MS) and a local ground, then just the signal wire will go to the MS input.

 

Easy is good. I recommend using a 2.7K pull-up resistor since the actually voltage can be over 14 volts.

It would be best if you used a shielded cable and ran the 3 sensor wires back to the MegaSqiurt box.
This way the sensor can ground at the same point as the MS box along with the cable shield

Use a 3 pin weatherpack connector at the sensor to connect it to the shielded cable.

Paul