Anyone else had ground clearance issues with the TA '65-'66 Sky/GS nailhead headers?

Re: Anyone else had ground clearance issues with the TA '65-'66 Sky/GS nailhead heade

There is a disclaimer in the front of the catalog stating "All customers must understand that all aftermarket parts may not fit their application perfectly. The customer assumes all responsibility of these risks. Any modifications made to a product without TAs consent Voids your warranty and TA Will Not be held liable for any issues that may arise." You fall into this category, the headers did not fit your application perfectly, yet others who have it are ok. I could understand if it was every single time in which case there is obviously a major problem, but when you got the headers and you went to install them in the car and realized there was some issue you should have stopped there and contacted us before doing anything else with them. Everyone's application is different, it isnt just headers for a '65-'66 skylark/gs that has had this problem, every once and a while there's just a few people who for some reason have a compatibility issue arise with one of our products. We could have 100 people buy headers for a '70 350 and out of those 100 maybe 3-5 people have some form of issue that has to be dealt with because we cant guarantee that everyone's application is going to be the same. I'm not in charge of this sort of thing for that you would have to call the shop and speak with one of my parents as they own the business and have the final say

 

Re: Anyone else had ground clearance issues with the TA '65-'66 Sky/GS nailhead heade

I think these r the better way to go.... no grindage issues whatsoever. I made about 10 sets of these for my freinds here in PDX OR and we haven't had any issues. These were meant to fit 59-66 nails with the rear steering box... no long tubed headers... shorties all the way!

 

Re: Anyone else had ground clearance issues with the TA '65-'66 Sky/GS nailhead heade

Guys, these headers fit fine and are a copy of the headers made back in the day by Kenne-Bell. If many of you are first time headers users I can tell you that a hammer is a tool quite often required to get LT's to fit but these do not. That tiny adjustment to get the pipes aligned parallel to the ground is a small price to pay for up to a .3 et drop. Check out the cost for headers to fit some of the new muscle from Detroit. Be Happy. Headers must be made to fit the frame and floor boards. If you run lower than stock tires, lower the car-have 45 year old springs(that really lowers the car!), Motor mounts fresh? etc. Actually we usually changed to 15" wheels on the '65/'66 GS cars. A 275/60-15's are 28" tall, a good 1.4" taller than stock. Make the right power/torque a nail should and you'll need that much rubber, the '66 will handle, what, 255/60's? 27" tall, add a corrersponding 70 series front tire and go ROCK! That slammed look is for ricers. 20" wheels with a Buick lowered 4" is UGLY IMHO!
TA is making them as they were. It might be possible to raise the flange a couple of inches but that may come at a cost, willing to pay? A part needed for any serious or even light duty street car and complaining. When there is a part that is NOT available,complaining. No wonder the venerable nailhhead is left behind and old 348/409 Chevies get new parts. I'm still looking for another but please be a bit creative and be happy a hammer is not needed to install them
Another thing while I am ranting, because I love the nail and you guys too, get some magazine exposure. That article mentioned by Doc for one, had a 322"making 325engine HP and 385 torque. What have the 425's made on an engine dyno? It seems 400HP/500TQ are the targets anjd if they have not been reached with 425" what is the problem? At least for ONE of those? What were the numbers that the 2 motors I saw with dyno numbers making?


This is a MR code 401-
Stock pistons, 0.030 over
stock rods, crank
W-30-10 cam- installed 4* advanced
intake and heads were extrude honed. Heads were prepped by Carmen with the 1.94" intake valve, distributor, flywheel, oil pump, oil pan and pickup all from Carmen.
I had a set of GS Club headers with 2.5" collectors bolted on for the test. I left them there @ AMP so Mike is set for future Nailheads.

Carb is an Edelbrock 750. had to do lots of carb tuning.

best pull went torque 459 @ 3700, HP 373 @ 4700.

Then we stuck the Buick X-code aluminum dual quad manifold on there with 2 4bbl Carters- stock dual quads rebuilt by Carmen...

best pull went torque 446 @ 3800, HP 377 @ 4700 where it ended, it was leveling off there- stayed at 376.8 @ 5000 rpm.


The name has been deleted to protect the innocent. 377HP, a 401" that makes 52HP more than a 322". Innocent meaning lacking the knowledge needed to build a nailhead making close to the 400/500 figures that should be the benchmark. That cam appears to be a regrind of an early 425" cam when they had the 109* LSA. 232* of duration at .050 is HUGE for any automatic without a 3500rpm stall converter. What were the specs of the K-B Mark III cam? That was considered to be the largest to run back in that time. A 232* cam will "try" to make power outside the range of the heads of a nailhead.
There was another, maybe a 425, but still off the mark.


Attached are the dyno pull sheets. "We pulled just from 3500 to 5000 RPM. showed 361 HP @ 4600RPM and Torque was on it's way down

 

Re: Anyone else had ground clearance issues with the TA '65-'66 Sky/GS nailhead heade

Thats my engine, Like I said before YOU need to do the work, get YOUR engine on the dyno. :moonu: Then you can post YOUR results and actually show us what a genius Nailhead builder you are. :eek2:

And why are you posting on this thread about it anyway.

 

Re: Anyone else had ground clearance issues with the TA '65-'66 Sky/GS nailhead heade

RUHH ROW....:laugh: :laugh:

 

Re: Anyone else had ground clearance issues with the TA '65-'66 Sky/GS nailhead heade

I'm feeling a little lost and confused now by 6671's posting.... :idea2:

Please tell me what the price of rice in China multiplied by 149986, divided by the square root of 1776 on a Tuesday afternoon while sitting at Mc Donalds eating a Big Mac and drinking a stawberry shake and wearing a red hat has to do with the original thread about headers for the Nailhead that are not appropriate for road use?

Keep in mind that not everyone is about lowering their quarter mile times. The whole issue that Dan has is he's trying to build a car for driving on the road and not something for the strip. The headers he purchased are not practical for road use but he was never told about this at the time of purchase. He bolted them on, they were impractical for his use therefore he was requesting either a credit or refund.

To try and fix the problem by throwing additional money at it and suggest changing out original tires, rims and springs just to drive the car with these headers on the road is totally insane.

The 65 community is a pretty tight bunch and I'm one of many that know Dan personally and felt as though something should've been made right out of this deal. This will obvisiouly affect many of our decisions in the future when purchases are neccessary.

This experience will be unfortunate for both buyer and seller since Dan was planning on purchasing most of his parts through TA for his Pro Touring 65 GS clone he's building and his parts list included one of their monster 455's with all the bells and whistles.

You live and you learn... :Smarty:

Chris

 

Re: Anyone else had ground clearance issues with the TA '65-'66 Sky/GS nailhead heade

Im not sure what all that noise was about either,,,I know for a fact that the headers on my 65 do NOT "FIT FINE"!!!!
I don't really care what his opinion on 20" wheels are,,,,and really wonder why he got off on making HP/TQ with a nail,,,and was referring to some one elses engine!!!o No:

 

Re: Anyone else had ground clearance issues with the TA '65-'66 Sky/GS nailhead heade

I'll plan on crawling under my 66 to measure the ground clearance to both the front crossmember, and the low point on the headers. Headers were made by Kustom, but it'll still be a good comparison.
Contributing factors to lower header clearance in some cars could be frame spread, engine mounts settling, or maybe the rear of the transmission is too hi/low.
I've got tallish tires on my car. Header clearance is still only fair.

 

Re: Anyone else had ground clearance issues with the TA '65-'66 Sky/GS nailhead heade

Chris, I appreciate Dan's situation and can both sympathize & empathize having been there myself several times. According to the description of Dan's ride headers were not needed. Mike at TA is a guy who should be able to work things out with but not in public. I know Dan tried to contact personally and I may have missed the actual response, if it was pound salt then TA loses. If it was buyer beware then as I have, Dan eats them or better yet ebay would be a good place to sell the headers to cut the loss. Either way the balls to the wall nailhead will not have headers. I have installed and had installed the same headers with no issue. Well, there were a couple of times when the road's did not correspond with the speed of the car and the 2, headers and pavement became acquainted.
As for getting off topic that was frustration as there is a lot of talk and bichin' but not . much real hard data to go by.
To make a nailhead run into the 12's with a 3500# car and typical 200# driver takes more cash than most are willing to spend. Until a car is featured in a National magazine or even lays downsome numbers posted here that light a fire under some ofthe more fortunate the buick nailhead is dead, a relic that did wonderful things before most of us were born. It's too bad that article on the 322" was on a 322" and not the 425". Then we might have seen a 450HP and 500tq motor on an engine dyno. That 322" did it with little that was impressive besides the intake and it was refreshing to see some people doing something different with a nail.

The cost of the rice was free due to China and it's governmant subsidizing.
How many nailhead members considered active? Take that number, divide it into the cost of the headers minus 25% as they are used and the rest of us can paypal Dan the share that will compensate him and add enough to send the crap to TA if indeed that is how Dan feels. PICS? I did not read every post, my sincere apologies. The 4.5" that GSGTX posted seems quite fair considering a 35 year old design, trim some from the flange and have 5". Since I have seen these headers fit with a fair amount if room I have to think there was something about Dan's set that was a fluke.
Build the cars for their intended use please. This is what will stop vendors from producing parts for the nailhead and we might as well drive the last nail in ourselves, hey?

 

Re: Anyone else had ground clearance issues with the TA '65-'66 Sky/GS nailhead heade

I'll say it again.... a lot of us build our cars to stock specs or to a standard that we prefer that may not include taking the car down the 1/4 mile. Not everyone is interested in improving thier quarter mile times. Mild performance parts are usually bolted on because they can be easily added and removed without affecting the overall originality of the car and keep the car tame and dependable enough for daily road use.

Because I do not intend on building a 10 second car does not mean that I don't have the right to bolt a couple performance parts onto my ride.

Headers are not only considered as a performance addition, they can also improve the exhaust sound and gas mileage and are needed sometimes as replacments for missing or damaged factory manifolds.

My only dog in this fight is that when parts are intended only for strip use, they should be listed as so or if a special modification is required for road use, this should be stated up front before the purchase. This is part of the responsiblity that we assume a good seller will provide to make the customer happy and when there is an issue, they'll take responsiblity for their mistake and do right by the buyer.

If the seller was not aware of this prior to the sale, they were made aware of it after the sale and should've done something about it (mistakes happen). Not accepting responsiblity and telling the buyer that they are SOL does not sit right with me or many others subscribed to this thread.

We are talking about an item that was sold and installed on a car that literally could've caused serious damage to the engine or even caused an accident if used for road use. The seller should make this right with the buyer and then take the matter up with the supplier to fix the issue and accept the parts back.

Let's all learn something from Dan who has refused to sell the headers on Ebay. He accepts the responsiblity and is not one to pass his problems onto someone else.

I loved the comment about all the users should take up a donation and send it to Dan to cover his loss on the headers. It's funny how the answer for everything here lately seems to deal with a Bailout Plan. I believe in accountalbity for those who should be accountable and not passing the problem onto those who work hard and are accountable.

This is the last thing I have to say about this...

 

Re: Anyone else had ground clearance issues with the TA '65-'66 Sky/GS nailhead heade

Getnbye,,,thats a well written,,,right to the point!!!!
I put these headers on my car to improve sound,,,fuel mileage and maybe a few more HP!!!
Like I mentioned before,,,they don't fit very well on my car either,,,the only positive thing I can say about it all,,,is that the floor boards will not likely ever get very hot from the exhaust,,,,but it'll likely fry the hair off the back of any caterpillar I pass over!!!!

 

Re: Anyone else had ground clearance issues with the TA '65-'66 Sky/GS nailhead heade

The 65 community is a pretty tight bunch and I'm one of many that know Dan personally and felt as though something should've been made right out of this deal. This will obvisiouly affect many of our decisions in the future when purchases are neccessary.

I loved the comment about all the users should take up a donation and send it to Dan to cover his loss on the headers. It's funny how the answer for everything here lately seems to deal with a Bailout Plan. I believe in accountalbity for those who should be accountable and not passing the problem onto those who work hard and are accountable.

Yeah, tight. OK. Forget helping Dan. Mike you should speak to your folks and help Dan out. That disclaimer is not adequate to cover parts that do not even fit well enough to use. Wouldn't you agree if it were you? Well, in effect it is because TA wiill have trouble selling these headers if fit is a crap shoot because mine fit well and anothers did not. Maybe the complaint rate for 350 headers is 3-5% but it is obviously higher for the nailheads. Apparently your parents, the owners of TA, had to buy "X" number of these headers to get "X" price or for you to get your supplier to go ahead and make the headers to begin with. Have you sent these complaints onto the supplier as perhaps their quality control is lacking? If the nailhead guys did buy the remaining supply TA has they might have been able to raise them an inch or possibly 2 without any major retooling but that may never happen now.

"It's funny how the answer for everything here lately seems to deal with a Bailout Plan." I thought that was the government's way of dealing with incompetant companies like GM. Here too, huh?
"I believe in accountalbity for those who should be accountable and not passing the problem onto those who work hard and are accountable." Sounds like something a politician would say but I agree. Mike? Accountable or keeping those headers for a long time? This has become a lose, lose situation.

 

Re: Anyone else had ground clearance issues with the TA '65-'66 Sky/GS nailhead heade

i would buy another set of the same headers where else you going to get a set. what were you plan on buying and for what car. what would we do with out ta and eelco,and the guys that make mini starters, and high performance fuel pumps .robbmc and tom t

 

Re: Anyone else had ground clearance issues with the TA '65-'66 Sky/GS nailhead heade

I know from reading some of the previous posts,,from the vendor,,,that when I have the $$$ and time to get roller rockers for my nail,,,it will be a set of Toms going on!!!
The mini starter I bought from him works perfectly,,,,no issues,,,and I'm sure if there was,,he wouldn't tell me to call his parents!!!!!

 

Re: Anyone else had ground clearance issues with the TA '65-'66 Sky/GS nailhead heade

LOL!!!!! :laugh: I bought a set off Tom right when they went out. Hell my deposit was sent in '02-'03?( I was even mailed preliminalry info not to be shared) God knows when I'll get to use 'em though. The block went under water. :ball: And the rollers are sitting on my bar fridge-all shiney. But if Tom was gonna make a header-I'd do it all over again! :beer Betcha it would be a wait, but I'd put $ on that they would be the prettiest,best fittin' son-of-a-guns you evern saw.

I guess I should be happy I have no use for headers huh???