Looking for info on hydrogen gas as a suppliment to traditional gasoline for use in our "old" cars. Anyone tried this yet? Basic principle is to use electrolosis and water to break out the hydrogen from the water (H20). Then the gas is moved to the carb via lines to an air intake and sucked into the engine to facilitate a more complete burn of the gasoline fuel. It seems like the basic science is there, but reads like a scam. The claim is a 15-25% gain in MPG, due to a complete burn of the fuel. (95+ vs. 80% for gas alone). This is simular to water injection or alky injection, but the difference is the water remains and only the gas is broken out. If this is true, then a 14MPG dinosauer would be getting 17.5 MPG, or in Buick speak, an extra 50 miles per tank (savings of $184.50 @ $3.69 gal). I'm finding two schools of thought; 1. that this is voodoo & a total scam 2. it really works and we need to think outside the box. Thoughts?:idea2:
I've read positive reports of the benefit of hydrogen injection for a gasoline engine. The problem is the total energy equation...to make electrolysis take place to produce the hydrogen from water requires a considerable amount of energy. Enough energy to basically nullify the savings obtained by injecting the hydrogen in the first place. If you had a free source for bottled hydrogen it might be worth investigating! Devon
I have this friend who is really into "suppressed technology." He spent a couple of grand and went to Utah to take a class on this kind of stuff and never made it work. This is a guy that Ford goes to when they need some weird part built that their in house guys can't do.
That's funny, I ran across this the other day and thought the same thing: http://waco.craigslist.org/pts/670880224.html I'm still on the fence so far because like you said, it sounds too much like a scam. BUT, it still peaks my curiosity!
I do vendor investigations on Casino's and everything tells me that this is a scam. The tease is that "most of the info" was published on line. I believe what is left out, would be covered in the 2 part series of books for only $107! The flip is that what is put out does make some sense. You are using it as a supliment and not a fuel. The science geeks are telling me that large amounts of electrical amps would be needed to effectively split off the Brown's Gas to be somewhat usable as described. Maybe some of our engineering types could weigh in on this. Of course what is really needed is a prototype to do "real world" testing and see if the claimed milage increase is there. With our dinosaurs, every little bit helps to keep them on the road. I do see a real need for FI & overdrive (but that 4 spd, BBB is so much fun!). Jim
Well, here's the thing, the energy you get out of burning the gas would equal the energy used to separate it, minus the losses (mechanical, heat, friction, electrical resistance, etc.) so the only possible gain is in promoting more complete combustion of the gasoline. Theoretically a gain that way might be possible, but odds are we're not going to be able to measure it outside a laboratory at this stage. Jim
I think it's a hoax. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...-US:official&hs=cVG&q=water+4+gas&btnG=Search
I remember going to a demonstration for the miracle of "Browns gas" back in Kansas City in the early 80's. Watched a guy using the gas to weld a steel rod to a brick. He welded a piece of brass to a piece of aluminum as well. They definately had the crowd going, but the buy-in was high, so I only took home a brochure. A year later when I tried to contact the company, they had disappeared. Caveat emptor on the browns gas.
Wow, at $4 per gallon, any increase in the efficiency of the combustion of the fuel would be nice. As Jim just said, the increase would most likely only be seen in a lab environment. But, if we could separate enough H22O from the H2O (1 molocule of hydrogen) to introduce into the air/fuel ratio economically ($200 or so) then any increase would be welcome. What I remain unsure of is how much gas is needed to produce an effective gain. With 7.5 litres (455 Stage 1) in volume to fill, it would seem that 2-3 of these so called "generators" are going to be needed. If this is the case, would a secondary charging system (high energy) be needed? With my '69, I still have space on the driver's side (Pontiac/Olds have a battery there), and we could fab up a 2nd alternator bracket & run on the third (a/c) pulley position from the crank. In theroy, a high output, internal regulated, big car alternator should produce the voltage requirement needed. So then IF we see a 20% boost to milage from this addition at a limited cost (nothing is free) and we add overdrive to reduce RPM (gear vendors or AOD) then being a daily driver at 20 MPG would again seem reasonable (right foot dependant!). Please let me know if this line of thinking is on target (good or bad). Jim '69 GS California 455 Stage 1/Muncie 4 spd/3.31 posi "Passes everything but gas stations" & that ain't good right now!
I have looked into this, but only on the internet. There was one actual testimony that made sense, from a SAE mechanic. He said that the information given in the books was very interesting, but he was on the fence if anything would produce the benifits on the water4gas web page. I figured if it was that simple than there would already be in every auto parts store.
If you search HHO on Youtube there are some amazing videos of in car system built and running. Here are 4 videos on saltwater for gas http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-oOgytBWYs&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kKtKSEQBeI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtmK3hwYO6U&feature=related
This is a old video of Stanley Meyers(deceased) who invented a water for gas car in the 70's very informing check this out part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8stApCmxYEM&feature=related part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h75_TGiwg78&feature=related water car running short video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6yRn4IAsrU&feature=related
You can get darn near 20 mpg from a 455 depending on gearing, tune, and driving conditions. A friend of mine put a V6 in an "A" body years ago and got over 30 mpg on the highway.
Alan, 20 mpg would be awesome! What gearing and carb combo are you speaking of? I have a 2.56 single spin (8.2) sitting on the shelve. I'm afraid that it would go BOOM with a 455 in front! My 3.31 posi has plenty of pick up, but milage is a measly 14mpg IF I stay out of the Holley 750. I think a Q-jet is most likely the way to go, but what CFM? I have a 678 cfm for a '69 GS 350 that could be used. I'd guess that this is most likely the max cfm out of this carb & don't want to lean out the 455. Combo is: 1971 455 Stage 1, Muncie M20, Chevy 12 bolt 3.31, running a 14" tire/rim with 215's/235's. Most likely would need to run a 15-17 inch wheel to reduce rpm's. Thoughts? Jim
Jimmy, go with the 2.56 gear if you want better milage but also try a Q jet FORSURE! Go with a 71-74 Buick 455 Q jet and you will be pleased! They are 800 cfm and already jetted for economy on the 455.
2.56 is what I'm thinking of with a TH400 and low ratio gear set. Sort of a "low buck" overdrive setup.
Me and my buddy just got into this. He built a homebuilt cell and he said hes getting 20% on his injected 350 truck (older injection computer 1992 I think) after 2 tanks. Peaking my interest I looked at his cell and saw some room for improvement. I just built mine and tested it . Heres a photo of my intentionally small cell. It produced gas for the first time last week first try . I am now building one larger to install in my truck ...the one in the photo is 18" long and 2-1/2 wide. It uses 12 volts and used 8.8 amps. It produced pretty well for the first time....in a nutshell supposedly hydrogen burns cleaner, cooler and has 3 times the energy of gas per volume. You inject it in the intake via a simple vacuum hose. The computer supposedly leans the injector pulse width out in response. Now the facts : I have read putting this hydrogen gas in can actually cause the computer to go the other way by accident and actually fatten the injector pulse -using more gasoline worsening your mileage as the hydrogen burns so clean it scrubs up the gas emissions so clean- the o2 sensor is fooled and says to the engine hey computer fatten the mixture up we are lean. SOOOO the guys that are getting unbelievable +30%-50% mileage increases goof with the 02 sensors output signal to allow leaning out of the mixture so the hydrogen can take over and the injector pulse width is super skinny . Supposedly older computers are less savvy and have better results on the hydrogen cells. Think about it the computer via its program is only going to lean things out so far before it stops so it doesnt burn pistons etc. by being too lean ..so I think the best you can sneak by and do without goofing with the 02 sensor is at best probably 20%. I will take that any day ! So I am building a larger cell and I will throw it on my Toyota truck and just see what happens. P.s. my first small cell cost $19.85. It would almost pay for itself after the first tankfull. People are running 100% off of hydrogen but you basically have to really rearrange the engines fuel system to accomodate the gas and its clean burning properties. Go on Youtube and type in hho cell,,,their are thousands of mad scientist types doing it . IM ALWAYS A SKEPTIC BUT THIS IS REAL AND IT WORKS. Also go on and type in hho explosion - you have to be carefull with this stuff - but its manageable. Will keep you updated when I add it to my truck in a few weeks. I still want to tweak my design and buy better stainless components for it. Above was just talking about fuel injection....for carbuerated cars you just inject the low pressure hose into the intake manifold and the engine draws in the hydrogen gas. The biggest danger is a backfire in the intake that makes it all the way back to the cell then its kablooohey unless you have backfire protection in the gas line or what they call a bubbler ...alot of guys are making homebuilt anti backfire valves...they are probably reinventing the wheel as I am sure propane barbeque components would probably work. I actually have a super short video showing my cell shown in the photo pushing pressurized HHO out of the chamber on its first run through a transparent line into a water filled catch tank so you can see the volume of gas being produced .....its on you tube and my name is sootie007..if your bored check it out.....this stuff is for real ...Im sure the government will step in soon and make it illegal to have these generators on your car in the name of safety but really to protect the oil companies and the U.S. government's tax revenues....ps Im not usually a conspiracy theorist type but this stuff works and is super simple and is not being offered to the public via auto manufacturers like it should be - so what gives Mr. President ?????? Oil bidness ?..Good luck J.
