A-body Suspension Packages

Discussion in 'Pro-Touring' started by Nothingface5384, Apr 27, 2013.

  1. Nothingface5384

    Nothingface5384 Detail To Oil - Car Care

    This Is a combination of parts that'll give you best performance for your buck along with alternate parts to substitute a part due to different tech/style

    Quick FYI : rear arms can come as swivel link/Articulink(arm twists) or a spherical end(Del-Sphere, Johnny-Joint, Roto)
    some spherical joints arn't rebuild-able..Johnny joints are rebuild-able del-sphere and Rotos are rebuild-able but you can also tighten them back up if/when they sphere wears. so in other words for spherical ends stick with spohn, umi or Currie.

    ..if your current arm setup has neither, add a Johnny-Joint bushing kit(SC&C and Currie sells them) ..no hurt in adding them eitherway though
    UMI has their version of the Spherical joint bushings for axle ears now

    Rear Trailing Arms options
    Curretrac upper/lowers (Johnny-Joint/Poly Race)
    umi performance upper dual roto lower(ROTO-Joint/Delrin Race/Adjuster)
    Spohn uppers/lowers(DEL-Sphere/Delrin Race/Adjuster)
    DSE upper/lower(Swivel-Links)
    Hotchkis upper double adjustable(swivel bushing)

    Rear control arm Braces( 3 styles)
    Best style is the DSE/UMI/Hotchkis style
    least best is the slotted style(edelbrock)
    Global West is the 3rd style

    Rear lower relocation Bracket
    Umi

    Rear sway bars
    Spohn Pro-Tour bar(Heim Joints end links)
    DSE rear bar(Swivel end links)
    Hellwig Pro-tour bar has adjustable end links that accommodate stock or lowered ride heights and incorporate hourglass bushings to allow 5X more articulation than a straight cut bushing
    Hotchkis rear bar (regular end links)

    RideTech posi link(conversion for reg end link style bars)

    Front control arms( allot of companies overprice theirs which is also why most of us wont buy a complete kit and pursue to piece one together.
    I'll only bother to list 1 set as you can add an insulator to ditch your traditional shock/spring combo in favor for coil-overs!
    Also has super easy alignment adjustments

    SPC uppers/lowers. can get uppers in "Pro-lite" version though SC&C. can get combo pretty cheap through Sparks motorsports.
    Just about the most versatile arm combo and leaves more lean-way for coilovers or air ride without even touching the shock/spring settings
    Umi has really nice adjustable uppers now PN 4056-3

    Front sway bars
    DSE regular
    DSE Splined bar or Ride-techs splined musclebar(300 cheaper)
    Hotchkis front bar
    Hellwig front bar

    Stock spindles configs
    howe or UMI Tall upper/lower billet Balljoints with stock steering arms
    or
    Tall upper BJ, stock lower BJ, and L&H Pro Billet A Body Steering Arms

    Aftermarket Spindles
    ATS drop Spindle
    L&H Kustoms Stock height Drop spindle

    Traditional Steering
    Lee 600 or 800 12:7 box with matching pump (powerSteering) Stock 16-16.5' steering wheel works well
    Saginaw 525 16:1 box(manual) need manual pitman arm 14-14.5" steering wheel works well

    Rack & Pinion steering
    Uni-Steer is only company to consider as other companies have wrong geometry(bumpsteer corrections)
    also avoid Flamming River at all cost in any application Please! aka mesterpiece of disaster

    R&P with stock Spindles
    Tall upper BJ
    Stock lower BJ

    R&P with drop Spindles
    use stock height balljoints and stock steering arms

    Electronic Power Assist
    Electra steer by Uni-Steer good if you delete ps line and plus holes in PS box, or simply swap to manual box and pitman

    chassis re-enforcement
    HPI kit

    Mini-Tub Kit
    ABC Performance
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2014
  2. Nothingface5384

    Nothingface5384 Detail To Oil - Car Care

    Traditional shock/springs
    best bet for springs is to look at install pics..some drop springs seem to raise car heigher then stock.
    best shocks would be by FOX Ridetech Q-series and Hotchkis 1.5 HPS are the way to go.

    Coil-overs
    Hybrid = Viking
    Reg = Ridetech

    Umi sells coil-over conversion brackets or kits with viking
    Def go with Speedtechs Chicane kit if using a hybrid coil-over

    Electric-Ride
    Viking Active Berserker coil-over shocks

    Air-ride
    Ride techs rear cool ride(shockwave if setup for coilover) and front Shockwaves(new monotubes are allot better then their old design)

    Hydraulic Ride
    http://www.jrishocks.com/shop/street/hydraulic-ride-height/


    Stopping Power

    Air-Assist brakes
    AIRMASTER brake system

    Hybro-boost brakes (recommend lee PS pump and PS cooler)
    HydraTech

    Electric assist Brakes
    abspowerbrake.com

    Dual stage hydraulic
    ECI Universal Brake Assist (UBA)

    caliper upgrade that should keep most 15s and 14in rims
    wilwood Front dual d-52 calipers with 94-95 D614 pads
    Ruff Stuff Detailing Rear D154 disc kit
    wilwood has AL single and dual pistion upgrade calipers to rid of kits factroy single cast

    Baer is ultimate choice, but usualy most expensive

    Core3 is best way to upgrade if you want big brake kit using factory components and dont plan to stick with 14/15in rims
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2014
  3. gsxnut

    gsxnut Well-Known Member

    What about some of the other companies like Global West, Metco Motorsports, HRPartsNStuff (rear suspension).

    I have Global west on the front of my A-Body that uses a later model spindle and tubular arms to change hte geometry.
    I also have had the MetcoMotorpsorts Solid lowers and ajustable uppers and they worked well for stock location replacement.

    The thing I really like about the HRPartsNSTuff setup is it actually ties back to the frame unlike most of the setups that simply replace the existing set style.

    I have never tried them but have heard good things about BMR Suspension.


    I cannot find the name of the place now but there is a manufacturer making adjustable upper A-Arms also. These give you a lot better adjustablility of the camber and caster from the stock mounting points.

    I think a discussion about springs rates would also be a good discussion. Given the A-Body is as heavy as it is and they really want to push in the corners a stiffer spring rate in the fornt helps with the body roll issue on the cars.

    Another relatively cheap changes is the gearing in the standard power steering box. You can really improve the sensativity on the cars. I have autocrossed with the stock gears in the steering box and the slaloms are really difficult because of how far you need to rotate the steering wheel. Typically more than a full turn.


    Mark
     
  4. Nothingface5384

    Nothingface5384 Detail To Oil - Car Care

    hr parts bar is a drag bar, i had one its a nice bar..heavy too, you would need at min a 1 3/8 hollowbar to compliment the hr bar, such as DSE or hotchkis, but hr
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2014
  5. gsxnut

    gsxnut Well-Known Member

    I have not tried this but I wa thinking along the lines of using the HR bar in the back because of the connection type and control it allows and then using the hollow bar and stiffer springs in the front. I was thinking about the combination could give you a really nice setup for roadcourse or Autocross. I did see a guy with a Turbo Regal have a home made setup that was really sweet using those techinques and I think he road raced that car.

    Any Thoughts?

    Mark
     
  6. Jeff Peoples

    Jeff Peoples Platinum Level Contributor

    Study up on the Spohn pro touring rear bar. It attaches back up to the body and not to the lower control arms (like the H R bar, and other drag race rear bars). It is also adjustable via 3 different mounting points. It connects with heim joints (not Johnny joints), which are adjustable.
    I have had one on my GS for a few years, and I am very happy with it. I autocross it at GoodGuys events and SCCA events yearly.
    By the way, I bought all my suspension components from S C & C.
     
  7. sailbrd

    sailbrd Well-Known Member

    I agree with Mark on the HRPartsNstuff is better for drag racing. You do reach a point where the bar is just to stiff. Also a good point about the front and rear bar balance. That is what is nice about bars that have some adjustability.

    It is good to see so many companies putting some really good stuff out there. When I rebuilt my suspension Global West and Currie were the only ones that were really into correcting geometry and building control arms that would not bind up our stock mounting point suspensions.
     
  8. gsxnut

    gsxnut Well-Known Member

    I agree. When I built my suspension 10 years ago the only thing I could find was Global West. By the time I could afford it the Hoctkis bars were on the market. There are so many options now. They even have a new A-Body frame that is a boxed frame and have a modern suspension setup with rack and pinion steering. I wanted to do that but still cost prohibitive for me. Maybe someday. I would really like to see a Buick out on the track that handles like some of the other well built A-Body cars.

    Thanks for starting this thread. It had gotten me excited about doing something. I also thought about G Body with a turbo V6 and six speed, fender flares etc. It would be really sweet too.

    Mark
     
    patwhac likes this.
  9. BuickNut70

    BuickNut70 Silver Level contributor

    Well after much debate I've decided to save up for an air ride system.
     
  10. Nothingface5384

    Nothingface5384 Detail To Oil - Car Care

    Nice, so what kit, Stage 3 :-D
     
  11. Jeff Peoples

    Jeff Peoples Platinum Level Contributor

    I met Brett Voelkel, president of Ridetech (formerly Air Ride Technologies), a couple of weeks ago at the Nashville GoodGuys autocross. He was looking at my pro touring GS while parked beside his pro touring roadster (cover of Hot Rod mag this month). He is super nice and has a yellow GSX pro touring car that he owns personally. Their products are the best of the air ride variety.
     
  12. BuickNut70

    BuickNut70 Silver Level contributor

    If I was going to use it more it would probably be a stage 3. But I cant drive like I used to so it will be a stage 2.
     
  13. 70staged

    70staged Well-Known Member

    How good is umi suspension. Mainly looking at front control arms and use qa1 coil overs
     
  14. sailbrd

    sailbrd Well-Known Member

    If I was starting over would use them. Only caveat is would only use their spherical joint rear control arms.
     
  15. boosted6

    boosted6 Going fast with class!

    We have a few customers who have ran or currently running Curre-trac, rotto joint on the upper & lower rear control arms on a G-body and not getting enough articulation and actually Binding. We have seen it many of times on an autocross course the inside tire on a hard turn is actually lifting off the ground. That is not good when your needing as much contact with the pavement as possible! I run the DSE rear upper & lower adjustable control arms and my inside tire has Never came off the ground and it articulates perfectly as it should. Something to keep in mind...

    Here is a picture of a customers car doing just that:

    Picture179.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2013
  16. Nothingface5384

    Nothingface5384 Detail To Oil - Car Care


    This is a reason why I sold all my old spherical setup. I wonder how ride tech does now since they added heim joints to their arms and posi links to their bars.

    Though their pricing is still ridiculous on whats included vs what you can get if you go traditional setup.
     
  17. boosted6

    boosted6 Going fast with class!

    I have not heard a complaint yet about Ridetech's suspension products and never seen this issue with their products under a car causing the inside rear tire to lift off the pavement until I do I would guess they are doing fine..

    I personally have DSE adjustable upper & lowers on my Buick and the tires stay planted while on the exact same course as the black MCSS so there is something happening with his Curr-trac rear arms!... Pricing on some suspension products is dirt cheap while others are sky high, I honestly think when it comes to suspension products you get what you pay for. To me the proof is on the Pavement on what works and what don't whether it be cheap or expensive, it Has to Work!

    There really isn't much to rear upper & lowers when it comes to the arms themselves but when it comes down to articulation it now boils down to the fixed mounting points that gives the advantage of one over the other...
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2013
  18. Stg1Regal

    Stg1Regal Yep Traction Issues!:)

    Sounds to me like Scot W. at GNS Performance has the best of both worlds in his suspension.

    A solid geometry corrected front suspension from Ride Tech.... Taller Ball Joints, The 2nd redesigned lower control arms that centers the wheel/tire better, leads to better turning radius, Redesigned uppers for the taller ball joints, using Delrin bushings to eliminate deflection. Then short of spending a ton of money for ATS spindles , their Bump steer correction kit.

    Then selected DSE's front sway bar, and chassis stiffener...


    As for the rear , and in my opinion, DSE rear suspension, is the best choice, ARTICULATION is the key word, and DSE's Swivel Link control arms seem to be the answer, and their ball joint style endlinks for the sway bar, eliminates binding... so better Articulation and no binding... that's what we all need in our triangulated 4-link rear suspension.

    Then we all know and with out a shadow of doubt, RideTech's Coilovers work, and work well.

    The T-Type at GNS Performance is a Test Vehicle, and that's just it ...... Scot at GNS Performance gets various products and tests them, and relay what works and what dosn't ... what works well he passes it in along to us and stands behind it.

    I personally like the set up he has... myself reading and gathering info on G/A body suspensions, and with all the various approaches from various vendors on how to help our suspensions get better , seem to all come to the same conculsion ... pretty much what Scot's test car has found that works.

    It's hard to believe that not to many years back we where pushing poly bushings to get rid of wheel hop, and the B-body spindle for negative camber.... and that was about it.
    Now we have about 10 different companies that offer their versions to combat our older suspensions, and give us better ride quality, and handling.. wich in turn let's us drive our Hot Rods/ and Muscle Cars more confindently and often.
    We even have 2 companies that builds a complete aftermarket frames/chassis for our rides...

    So alot to go on, but we got a Business owner that is sharing with us what works well with him...
     
  19. Nothingface5384

    Nothingface5384 Detail To Oil - Car Care

  20. Nothingface5384

    Nothingface5384 Detail To Oil - Car Care

    Hey jeff, do you have the spring ratings for each of the 3 wholes for the Spohn/SC&C Pro-Tour bar
    wanted to comparing the settings to the DSE rear bar
    DSE rear swivvel-link bar
    Front Hole: 597 lb/in. Rear Hole: 736 lb/in.
     

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