700r4 vs 200r4

Discussion in 'The "Juice Box"' started by simon1243, Sep 14, 2004.

  1. simon1243

    simon1243 Got Torque?

    im sure that this has been discussed many times before but what are the difference's between the two and has anyone ever tried to put one into a 73 riv :3gears: any help would be very appreciated
    thanks curtis helena montana
    1979 buick lesabre
    1974 electra 225 limited
    1973 riviera
     
  2. 70 gsconvt

    70 gsconvt Silver Level contributor

    I got this off of a tranny web site:




    Q: 200R4 or 700R4
    I just purchased a 68 firebird convertible with a 428 from a 69 grand prix SJ and a Turbo 400. I am considering replacing my Turbo 400 with either a 200R4 or a 700R4. Any advice/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Obviously, the car was not original/numbers matching to begin with so I hope I'm not offending any purists out there.

    Thanks.

    A: A couple of things to consider when making your choice:

    2004r comes in a bolt pattern that will attach directly to the block and is almost identical in length to a 400TH. This makes the install simple with a 400TH trans cross member. It is considered weaker than the 700r4. If you pull a 2004r out of a Buick Gran National or Monte Carlo SS you'll get a stronger unit.

    The 700r4 is a stronger unit but will not hold up if you plan on drag racing. Either unit can be reworked to make them bullet proof if you have the bucks. The 700r4 will require an adapter ($40) to attach to the Pontiac block and you'll have to move your transmission back on the frame about two inches. In both cases you'll have to have your drive shaft shortened ($30).

    The TV cable is tricky to get right. Thee are companies that sell TV brackets to mount to an intake but not sure if one is available for Pontiac (would be interested to hear from some one on this). I made the one for my buddy's car. It holds both the TV cable and the throttle bracket but I have a Mig.

    You'll need a kit to convert the trans to a non-computer controlled unit. I recommend a company called T.P.I. Tech (1-203-599-0382). They have a conversion kit for about $70 and it works great (no switches to flip to go into or downshift out of O.D.).

    You can use a stock shifter but you'll need to purchase a decent kit ($60). The trans yoke from a 350TH will fit directly into a 700r4 (not sure about the 2004r) If your car originally came with a 400TH or you have a rear end from a car that did, it has a large yoke (make sure you have the correct trans yoke).

    Over all, it's not that expensive to do and the way these big cube motors suck the gas, your pay-back is pretty quick if you drive a lot. I'm planning on installing one behind my 400 when it starts to go back together. I've install a 700r4 in my buddy's 68 Camaro and it works great (300hp and 24 mpg highway on a 3.4:1 gear). Good Luck.

    A: The turbo 200 is not a particularly strong tranny, the turbo 700 is, if you get a post '86 version. The 700 is longer, so you will have to do driveshaft and crossmember mods to get it to fit, and possibly the floor pan. Get the yoke with the tranny.

    A: I have a '69 Ragtop with the same package and I'm runing a 3.08 posi rearend. Why would you want to convert to a 2004R? My car has enough torque to smoke the tires from here to kingdom come and it runs great on the hiway (13.7 in the 1/4). Though I did add a Holeshot 2000 torque converter to it. I would'nt mess with a good thing. That's my 2 cents worth.

    A: The 700R4 is the stronger of the two transmissions,however it is not anywhere near as strong as a turbo 400,particularly in stock form.This also applies to the 200R4. You should not even think of using either model without having it rebuilt & beefed up as much as possible.If you are real lucky or diligent you may be able to find a 700R4 with the "dual-pattern" case (ie-it has the chev & buick/olds/pontiac bellhousing pattern) I don't know how rare they are but they do exist. As mentioned before, you also have to deal with shifter, driveshaft length, X-member etc. I would also install an external trans cooler to increase reliability.

    A: No 700r4 came with the B-O-P pattern, only the Chevrolet pattern. The Monte Carlo SS only came with a 305, therefore only a 200 4r. Your best bet for a 700r4 is a late model Camaro/Firebird. As to "why" ans someone asked... you get a lower first gear and overdrive all in the same package. No you cannot drag race a stock 700r4 like you can a 400TH but most who build their cars for drag racing don't do much highway cruising. I like to drive my convertible with the top down to a little town about two hours away. At 24 mpg versus 16 mpg it doesn't take long to pay for the conversion. And with the lower first gear you can still burn the tread off of the tires if you feel like it.
     
  3. D-Con

    D-Con Kills Rats and Mice

    Hey Curtis,
    I'm from Helena too.

    I have a 200-4r in my 64 Skylark. I think it is the way to go for an all around street-strip car that isn't faster than high 11's. The 200 can be made at least as strong as the 700 can be made, it's the budget units where the 700 might have some advantage.

    With the Riv I would weigh either a Gear Vendors or a 700R4 because of the car weight. The G-V gives brute strength, and the 700 offers the low 1st gear for the Riv which is stuck with relatively tall gears and car weight.

    If the rest of the car going to be basically stock the 700 would probably be fine. I wouldn't expect much in mileage improvement with that car, but it'll fly down the highway with decent street performance.
     
  4. simon1243

    simon1243 Got Torque?

    D-CON what is a gear venders? and why wont i get any better gas mileage with either one of these tranny's
     
  5. 70 gsconvt

    70 gsconvt Silver Level contributor

    Here's is Gear Vendor's web site. It's an overdrive unit that you can bolt on to the rear of your tranny and get a .78 overdrive. They are $2200 for most cars.


    http://www.gearvendors.com/
     
  6. D-Con

    D-Con Kills Rats and Mice

    Because the car is so heavy, unless you put on a pile of highway miles, the majority of the gas gets guzzled taking off in trafffic driving. An overdrive won't do much for you there.
     
  7. LDPosse

    LDPosse Well-Known Member

    Curtis -

    After having both a 700-R4 and a 200-4R in my skylark, I'd would recommend the following --

    If you want to get a junkyard unit and put it in, without a rebuild, go with the 700-R4. In stock form, they are a stronger transmission than the 200-4R, unless you can find one with a "BRF" code (GN/TR) or "BQ" code (Monte SS)

    From what I've read over on turbobuick.com forums, it seems the 200-4R has the potential to be the strongest when built with all of the high $$$$ parts. I had a 200-4R from Performance Transmissions in my skylark behind a PAE built 464 (597hp/568tq) and it performed great, but when I took the driveline out, I found that the bellhousing had cracked in 3 places, and only 3 of the bellhousing bolts were actually holding the transmission to the engine! :eek2:

    If I was going to put OD in a street car that's not going to see much, if any track time, I would probably go for a freshened up 700-R4. The steep first gear is great on the street.

    If you want a drag-racing transmission that you can run hard all day at the track, then cruise home in OD, a 200-4R from one of the high end builders would be the hot ticket. The closer gear ratios are better for racing.

    The Gear Vendors would be the ultimate in strength, but you don't get nearly the amount of overdrive as you do with a 700 (.70:1) or the 200 (.67:1).

    I can also verify that the 200 and 700 both use the same 27 spline slip yoke as the TH350 and powerglide. The 200 is nearly the same length as the TH350 (within 1/16") and the same driveshaft can be used, if your car has a TH350 now.

    If you need any other info on transmission dimensions, here is a great resource -- http://www.tciauto.com/tech_info/trans_dims.htm

    My recommendation would be to evaluate your driving habits and see if the cost of the overdrive transmission is really worth it. If a majority of your driving is in the city or on back roads, it will take a long time to save the amount of $ in gas that you spent to have the transmission put in. If you drive mostly highway, on the other hand, and alot of it, then OD would be a very worthwhile investment.

    Good Luck!!! :beer
     
  8. simon1243

    simon1243 Got Torque?

    well i mainly drive around town but about once a week i have to drive to another town which is about 225 round trip i would like to get better gas milage in town but then againim trying to add as much hp and torq as i can without turning my car into a racer(although i think it might end up that way anyways) :3gears:
     
  9. D-Con

    D-Con Kills Rats and Mice

    Curtis,

    I agree with everything Scott said.

    What rear gear ratio do you ahve now? A V-p converter and some engine upgrades are probably your best bet for low-buck mileage and performance improvement.

    If you decide to upgrade to stage 1 heads, let me know. I will have a set for sale shortly.
     
  10. simon1243

    simon1243 Got Torque?

    how much would you want for those stage 1 heads?
     
  11. lcac_man

    lcac_man Hovercraft Technician

    Just a little more info on 700r4 configurations, if you get one out of a caprice they have a slightly different tail housing and is only 3/4" longer (bolt mount wise) than the standard short nose TH400. I just drilled another set of holes in my frame 3/4" back from the originals and used my existing cross member.
     
  12. D-Con

    D-Con Kills Rats and Mice

    I sent you a PM...
     
  13. real82it

    real82it Silver Level contributor

    Thought this might help folks for reference:

    GM Automatic Transmission Gear Ratios

    Name 1st 2nd 3rd Overdrive

    Powerglide 1.76 1.00

    TH-350 1.52 1.52 1.00

    TH-400 2.48 1.48 1.00

    700-R4 3.06 1.63 1.00 0.70

    200-R4 2.74 1.57 1.00 0.67

    4L60 3.06 1.63 1.00 0.70

    4L80 2.48 1.48 1.00 0.75
     
  14. alec296

    alec296 i need another buick

    2004r shouldbolt is and you should require a longer driveshaft or a gm truck longer yoke . the yoke is the same for 350,2004r,700r4 and most manual transmissions
     
  15. stew'86MCSS396

    stew'86MCSS396 Well-Known Member

    Hopefully I didn't just miss it skimming through...TH-200 4R trans mount will bolt up to a TH-400 crossmember.
     
  16. Stage1 Jeff

    Stage1 Jeff Guest

    My 4949 lb '89 suburban has a 700R4, and gets very good mileage, even with a 3.73 posi. last road trip I made, 62 miles round trip, total gas used, 3 gallons.
     
  17. alec296

    alec296 i need another buick

    yes it should , i have the opposite, a 2004r crossmember to a 400 trans
     
  18. 86gsx

    86gsx Well-Known Member

    I have a tow truck that has went through three 700r4's had horrible luck with them had tv cables adjusted professionally(trans shop) oil coolers installed &installed everything to make them live I gave up on them when I had a 86 monte SS motor/trans. I put that trans in and knock on wood no problems! 86gsx
     
  19. nekkidhillbilly

    nekkidhillbilly jeffreyrigged youtube channel owner

    700s dont do good with heavy weight or towing

    im probably saying to hell with it and go 4l80e
     
  20. NJBuickRacer

    NJBuickRacer I'd rather be racing...

    The 2004R in my GN had a few hundred passes on it, plus around 6k street miles in a 3700 lb car with 60' times in the low 1.5 range. No problems at all, the new owner beats the crap out of it constantly. Just need to get one built by a competent shop. I used Dynotech, since I worked there.
     

Share This Page