700R-4 anyone using one of these?

Discussion in 'The "Juice Box"' started by 70 GMuscle, Aug 17, 2014.

  1. 70 GMuscle

    70 GMuscle Plan B

    I have a transmission builder offering me to build one. He uses them in his Oldsmobiles w adaptor plate. He is very satisfied with them. Says it frees up much needed horsepwer over the T400. My T400 is a real dud and am thinking seriuosly about it. I cruise more than race but do plan on racing it 1 to 2 times a year. already ran 12.40 at 108 w a crappy T400 on drag radials, 70 GS w a mild 455 at 4080 lbs. 3.42 gears.
    What carb is needed for the kickdown of the 700R?
    Chris
     
  2. 73-462GS

    73-462GS GS Mike

    I've got one in my 72. Been working fine for years but I don't race it. If you put sticky tires on you will have problems even if it is "built". I run mine on the street behind a 464 and have had no problems with it. I have a 4L80E waiting in the wings if the 700R4 goes down. I run a Quadrajet and made up my own linkage setup for the cable because there was nothing available for it. Bowtie Overdrives was the place everyone pointed me too but they didn't have any setup for the Quadrajet. Maybe they do now, might be worth checking. Also you will have to modify the right side floor pan to get the tranny to fit. Some guys won't do that so just a heads up for you. Mike D.
     
  3. TexasJohn55

    TexasJohn55 Well-Known Member

    They can be built to handle alot of torque with available upgrades in different areas. Sweet tranny but low gear is too low. My son built one and could not keep a lockup converter in it very long, it wasn't a lockup problem, it would lay over the fins or fail the thrust. After 4 or 5 converters, he pulled it out, tranny was still good.
     
  4. sailbrd

    sailbrd Well-Known Member

    Most of us use a 200-4r instead. Ratios work well with 3:55 to 3:73 rear ends, do not need adapter plate, can handle Buick torque if built right.
     
  5. bigjimmyl

    bigjimmyl Well-Known Member

    200-4r X2 almost a bolt in and lighter, justa bit harder to find now
     
  6. 70 GMuscle

    70 GMuscle Plan B

    never really gave a lock up converter a thought. I'd be happy non lock up. It does have overdrive. I know 1st gear is a stump puller and w Buick torque will launch hard. The builder has used them for years he says. I agree on 2004r, and he said he prefers 700's.
    says 700's free up much horsepower. I'd think 200's do too.
    I got time to think. A friend as an AOD in a camaro, another crazy option.
     
  7. TheSilverBuick

    TheSilverBuick In the Middle of No Where

    200-4r's are just a real pain in the rear to do the fine tuning dialing in of the shift points. More often than not they up shift early. Between the valve body and odd ball governor, they are a pain to calibrate compared to the 700r-4 (and TH350, TH400's). Usually, if using it with a stock engine with 3.23 or lower rear gear set, the 200-4r will work decently with minimal modifications to get it to shift nicely and at the right time. If the engine wants to shift above 5,000rpm, and/or your gear set is higher than 3.42 gears, then a high dollar special valvebody from a Grand National or Monte Carlo SS is highly preferred along with some severe modifications to the governor to keep it from shifting early and get the shift points up higher. The governor being inside the transmission pan makes it that much more a pain in the rear for adjustments. Valvebody modifications to the 200-4r also change the shift points, not just the firmness, so the governor needs to be recalibrated if the valvebody is modified. 700-4r's with the external governor's are much easier to do final shift point dialing in and far less sensitive to valvebody modifications that improve shift feel.

    I have 4.56 gears in my Firebird with a standard/common valvebody in the 200-4r, and I essentially drive it like a manual transmission, though with the 4.56 gears I do occasionally leave it in 3rd and with the cut down governor I finally got it not to go into third until about 15mph. I installed a drain plug in the pan and took me three tries to get there.
     
  8. TexasT

    TexasT Texas, where are you from

    Had a 700 in my Regal. Worked fine. Pulled it and went back to the 2004r. It is not for the novice builder they say, the local shops tell ya, it won't hold up, yet there are plenty in the 10s with a v6. I think it boils down to, the builder builds what they know. Your guy knows the 700r4.

    If you get an AA code from a Cadillac and go with the larger boost and rev boost valves to get the pressures up I think it shifts fine. I am using 3.432 gears. I have a second trans I want to put in my GS . Just time and money stand in my way.
     
  9. BrianinStLouis

    BrianinStLouis Silver Level contributor

    I called Monster Transmissions today
    They quoted me right at 1900 for a 200-4r that will handle 300 HP. Fluid, TV,speedo cable and bracket for my stock Q-Jet included.
    They claim they can custom build it to work excellent with my rear ratio and tire size.
    I was hoping for a price closer to the advertised 1200. But after the stall converter for the larger cam and all the other add ons...1900.
    Now I'm torn between my highly recommended Buick engine builder rebuilding my original 350Turbo ($800) and the 200-4R.
    This would be for my SBB in a 71 Skylark Custom, that will probably be less that 300 HP with a mild build.
    :dollar:
     
  10. sailbrd

    sailbrd Well-Known Member

    I love my 200-4r. My friend that built it does things that makes it work far better than any other trans I have ever used in a hot rod. That said is it worth the dollars? I get a really good price on all the work he does and I still have $2400 in the trans and $900 in the torque converter. I do not get any better gas millage because of the "big" solid lifter cam that I run. But I love the drivabilty I get with the 3:73 gear. With a lockup converter it is like having a 5 gear transmission. On the highway I can get in the big boy lane and cruise at 80 mph.

    A well built 350 is cheap and effective. So it all depends on your goals. A 300 hp build with a mild rear gear is a great cruise setup. If you are going cross country the OD might be worth it. But the alternative is to run a 3:08 gear and a cam like the 212. So you spend your money and make your choice. Good luck on the decision.
     
  11. austxsteve

    austxsteve Well-Known Member

    I ordered my 700r4 from Monster. (There is another thread taking place as I type on this very subject) It's on a pallet sitting next to my 71 Skylark. Very anxious to get it installed. Hoping in the next few weeks. Oh, the car won't see a track, just building it for weekends, stop lights and the occasional sat night old toot's gatherings. ha. As the car sits will have slightly under 400hp also. But I went with the 700 (SS) model from monster, so that I can safely go up to 600ish and not have to worry about the trans.
     
  12. BrianinStLouis

    BrianinStLouis Silver Level contributor

    Today...........I'm thinking Turbo350.
     
  13. HotRodRivi

    HotRodRivi Tomahawks sighted overseas

    700r4 in this 68 455 with all the goodies , been 10 yrs , broke the forward planet hub ounce, went to 5 pinion planets, 6 yrs ago. now the motor broke, tore it down , and only needed a reverse drum and band . I did everything they list and then some that maonster ss trans lists, They dont list the beast sun shell. That would worry me . I would call and ask about that . Its called the beast sun shell. There is a stronger one called the monster sun shell, that one takes some extra modification to make it fit. But I have never seen the beast show any stress , Having been a builder , I have built both , but more 700s . Even so, when u lay out a 700 and a 200 which I did before choosing the 700, its mind boggling that the 200 can withstand 300 to 400 hp in a stock GN.
     
  14. TheSilverBuick

    TheSilverBuick In the Middle of No Where

    The 200 is a better engineering design from a power flow path point of view, so the parts can be smaller and take the same load as the larger 700 parts. The hydraulic system though..... so frustrating.
     
  15. HotRodRivi

    HotRodRivi Tomahawks sighted overseas

    the oiling enginier guy really dropped the ball on that one.
     
  16. 68gsconv.4spd

    68gsconv.4spd New Member

    I own a 68GS and a GN. The700r4 is junk in my opinion [for high performance] and if you guys would check out the TB.com and look at the trans threads you will see that the technology has come a long way.

    We have builders that now have these trans reliable up to 800hp. They advertise that they can handle 1000hp and come with a warranty as such.

    Lonnie Diers of EXTREME AUTOMATIC is one of the most reputable builders as well as David Husek of Turbo Buick Performance.

    A stage three build comes with all the high quality billet parts to make them survive. There are many ten second cars [including mine] and some cars in the nines running one.

    I'm in the mid tens and still run a L/U converter. There are also NLU converters out there that could be used.

    They can be finicky transmissions but if you have a good builder that problem is lessoned or eliminated.
     
  17. HotRodRivi

    HotRodRivi Tomahawks sighted overseas

    So this is your first post since 2008. What took you so long. ? You probably have close to 4000 or more dollars in a 2004r. A transmission that needs billet parts to make it survive. I would think hardened steel parts would ware to start like the toothpick sized input shaft compared to a 700's input shaft, 4 pinion planets that look like a piece of bread with the corners folded over to hold the planetary gears. I do agree if you take an 80ies yr 700 as is, and put it in a 10 sec car , you will end up with junk. You would have the same result with a 2004r. The differance is with the 700, you can up date it with mostly factory parts from the 90ies and early 2000s. When was the last 200 put out? early 90ies. Ok the 200 was put in a turbo car. If putting it in a turbo car gives it more street credentials , then its a wash being there was a turbo typhoon or cyclone with a 700 in it. Just because some reputable turbo Buick guy built you a 2004r , that dosent make the 200 any better than a 700. Any one racing a 2004r want to chime in on how avaible and quickly thay can get after market hard parts for their tranny when something breaks. Im not talking to the guys who have a spare built up tranny in the tool box. There are only 2 advantages that a 200 has over a 700 when mating it to a Buick, the bell housing pattern, and the spread between 1st and 2nd gear.
     
  18. austxsteve

    austxsteve Well-Known Member

  19. TexasT

    TexasT Texas, where are you from

    What they don't tell you in that webrodder article is that shaft that appears larger has several passages inside it . This cuts down on just how much "meat" there is to withstand that torque.
    It is a personal decision. As my dad used to tell me, "you pays your money and you takes your chances". I like the 2004r for its ability to bolt up to the engine w/o an adapter and the ability to use the driveshaft if you are swapping out a tj350. Either should easily withstand 350 hp and 350 ft/lbs. If they don't someone isn't using the right parts and isn't assembling it right. Just like an engine, you can't just bolt it together. It needs some "massaging" to make it right.
     
  20. sailbrd

    sailbrd Well-Known Member

    Yah, those wimpy GN's with no torque! :idea2:
     

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