67 Riviera 430 Build

Discussion in 'The Bench' started by johnriv67, Oct 8, 2018.

  1. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    Opinions on Nitrous to get me into the 12s or low 13s? What's the max dry shot the engine could handle repeatedly for over 100 passes?

    I might have a source for a good deal in the future.
     
    techg8 likes this.
  2. 1972Mach1

    1972Mach1 Just some M.M.O.G. guy.....

    You can't run a dry system on a carbureted car, you have to introduce fuel with the nitrous. "Dry" nitrous is for fuel injected cars, because the EFI can add it's own fuel when it reads the A/F is going lean because of the oxygen added from the nitrous oxide. Most HEALTHY stock engines can take 100 hp.
     
    techg8 likes this.
  3. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    Ok that makes sense. Only reason I didn't think of that is wisdom teeth painkillers. Dry shot with no wet would put holes in everything.
     
  4. 1972Mach1

    1972Mach1 Just some M.M.O.G. guy.....

    Exactly. The nitrogen in nitrous oxide is only there to make the oxygen more stable and safer, and essentially just goes out the tailpipe after the fuel and oxygen is burned in the cylinder. Remember, if you do go with nitrous, without an electronic timing controller you'll have to retard your timing for normal driving so it's at a safe level when on the bottle. I always did 4 degrees retarded at 100 hp, 6 at 150 hp. I believe that's plenty safe, but it does cut down on your daily driving power a little......That said, it's sooooooo much fun. Your torque goes up more than the HP, and on a dyno the boost is almost straight up and down. As in, if you're at 350 HP and 450 ft-lbs. and turn it on, your power goes to (give or take) 450 HP and 600 ft-lbs. in a matter of a couple hundred RPM. I'm a nitrous junky.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
    techg8 likes this.
  5. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    Could always retard it at the strip only right?
     
  6. 1972Mach1

    1972Mach1 Just some M.M.O.G. guy.....

    Yes, but you won't. Trust me, you'll have it on while driving on the street.
     
    techg8 likes this.
  7. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    YESSSSS Can I like this post 10x?

    Nitrous that bad boy. Get a plate system. Wet. Plate goes right under the carb. Fuel and nitrous are shot in when activated.

    I have used the edelbrock spreadbore plate kit on a low compression 350. Went from 15s to 12.9 in a skylark. On a 100 shot.

    I'd say start w a 50 shot and build from there.

    For the timing retard you can use a retard box (I've got the one I used) that activates only when the nitrous is activated.

    Do it. You won't be disappointed. I believe nitrous is one of the best bang for the buck mods, when used appropriately.
     
    johnriv67 and 1972Mach1 like this.
  8. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    Fired off the carb to Ken for the night for a performance recalibration. He's done a great job in the past, no doubt it'll continue.

    Riv wouldn't idle on the idle circuit, instead stinking up the whole garage, had no power beneath 2000(despite the cam, I know better), and the exhaust cackled when I let off the throttle at high rpm(possible lean, or burning excess fuel?). All things that can be fixed
     
  9. BQUICK

    BQUICK Gold Level Contributor

    You have to be careful with nitrous and stock cast pistons....lots of retard on top end.
     
  10. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    Tremendous cylinder pressures right?
     
  11. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    Just bought the Dynomax 17219 Ultra flows off Amazon, not a terrible deal. Prepping for the install of the TA system over spring break. Then we'll take it to the track and hope.
     
  12. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    I would stay away from Nitrous if I was you. If you don't have everything right, you'll hurt the motor. Nitrous liberates extra oxygen in the combustion chamber. Without more fuel, you can go lean, and as mentioned, you'll have to retard timing with it. Running lean and detonating the motor at WOT is the quickest way to take out a motor.
     
  13. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    I'm feeling like I need a rev limiter. Got it to idle at 800 today thanks to Ken, all the modifications are working great. I just have to figure out how to get it to idle cold, adjusting the choke and fast idle screw.

    It still feels rich and lethargic, going back to 74 main jets. Not today, my mouth has just about stopped bleeding, so I'll wait. Being on this cycle of drugs isn't doing me well.

    Turned up the adjustable vacuum modulator 4 turns clockwise, should be higher shifts now, measurably. It's shifting at about half the stall speed of the converter, so it feels awful.

    I'll get the governor set up at some point soon, I just need a dry day for the ground to really wring it out to test shifts.
     
    techg8 likes this.
  14. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    The vacuum modulator will only affect shift points at minimum and part throttle. The adjustment is limited. To affect WOT shift points, you'll have to modify the governor.

    Make sure the switch pitch converter is working properly. It should be at high stall at closed throttle idle, off idle it should immediately go to low stall. At approximately 60% throttle, it should go back to high stall. If the converter is at high stall under light throttle, it can make the car feel lazy.
     
  15. BQUICK

    BQUICK Gold Level Contributor

    Also make sure kickdown is working. It affects line pressure and will cause a lower rpm full throttle shift if not working.
     
    johnriv67 likes this.
  16. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    Crap, that's exactly what I meant to do but forgot to write. Thank you!

    There's a diagram in my service book that I've been too busy and knocked up to look at, but I know exactly how I need to attach it to get my downshift back into place.
     
  17. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    X2, the ST400 will short shift at WOT if the electrical downshift is disconnected or not functioning for other reasons.
     
  18. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    Totally agreed Larry, part throttle is where I'm worried about right now. I know the distinction between gov and mod pressure and modifications. WOT I will worry about soon, once I attack the part throttle mod pressures.
     
  19. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    How about the converter? Is the low and high stall on at appropriate times?
     
  20. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    The converter high-low runs off a toggle switch, and has worked beautifully.
     

Share This Page