65 Gran Sport -Q-Jet, Manifold and Tom's rockers comparison race results

Discussion in ''Da Nailhead' started by Bigpig455, Sep 28, 2014.

  1. Bigpig455

    Bigpig455 Fastest of the slow....

    Good question Doc - in 2012 I had weighed at the town dump, and in 2014 I weighed at the track. I have no idea which is more accurate, but I like 3950 better. Actually, last Sept I weighed in, car and driver at 3900. I lost 25 lbs and was maybe running 1/2 tank vs. my normal 3/4? Who ever knows really.
     
  2. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    Yeah, 'cuz a county dump or scrap yard would NEVER cheat someone...

    Thanks for the re-fresher on the intent of the build.
    I was only showing potential, of course, based on flow & rpm.
    For some strange reason when I math this stuff out, they miraculously end up where predicted...:Do No:.

    It would be cool to see your vehicle built to fit all three configurations, but w/o the stickers.
     
  3. Bigpig455

    Bigpig455 Fastest of the slow....

    I'd design the stickers to be temps - EZ on, EZ off...couldn't make 'em permanent

    I appreciate the advice - it's all about sharing of knowledge.
     
  4. Bigpig455

    Bigpig455 Fastest of the slow....

    As a post script to this season, I went up Sunday to Lebanon Valley and ran with the Supercar Shootout crew, trying to get one more afternoon in before they close the track. My buffy Rick was supposed to join me in his beautiful 70 Trans Am, but it wound up eating the timing chain a few days before we were supposed to go. Tom was also nice enough to come on up and check it all out, pit crew and lend moral support. As far as the car, I brought the shift point down to 4700, but didn't have a chance to road test it the week before and it was too low, we left something on the table there. And when Tom and I checked the timing, we found that there was 29 degrees built in on top of my 12 initial for a total of 41.. Tom built the distributor and swears that there was no more than 24 in it when he built it. So we knocked the initial back to 5 degrees for a total of 34. Honestly, ran just about the same....felt strong either way.

    It was supposed to be a perfect day for racing, and it kinda was.. temps in the mid 40's and a DA of -628 below sea level! Perfect, right? Forgot to mention the wind.. there was a constant headwind of 10 MPH or better, with gusts to 25-30. It was so incredibly cold the cars wouldn't warm up, guys were having bogging issues all over the place. Me and Tom spent the day sitting in the car between rounds..couldn't stay outside for the windchill. I probably wouldn't have gone if I'd known.....I later calculated the wind was worth 13 less hp , and cost me .3 tenths all day. Me and everybody else.

    Anyways, I ran six times, and here's how they shook out.

    1 -I get lined up against a healthy sounding 68 Road Runner 383 Auto stocker ....we're running a pro tree which I am not used to and he trees me: .143 to my .351. But I 60 ft him 2.14 to his 2.25 and from there it's anyone's race, we're doorhandle to doorhandle all the way. He noses it for the win: 14.82 @ 92.70 to my 14.85 @ 91.17

    2- Another test run - I'm up against another guy named Rhett in beautiful 68 Barracuda Formula S, 340 auto but punched out to 406 and mean sounding. No contest, he runs a 1.89 60 to my 2.13, and just annihilates me with a 12.67 @ 107 to my 14.75@ 92.27. But I'm not bummed out, I've gained a 10th and a mph.

    3- last test run, this time I'm up against a beautiful 70 442 convertible....I try to run some richer DB rods to see if it helps. We line up and launch and he goes up in smoke, and is all over the track.. he backs out and runs a 16.2 @ 94.7 to my winning but slower 14.83@ 91.55. Back to my leaner CK rods, and it's a good thing he's got no traction!

    4 - Elimination round -Against a 70 Nova SS396 that's a purpose built machine. I run awesome, just not awesome enough - he trees me and takes off from there. 13.3 @ 109 (!) to my 14.72 @ 92.58 with a 2.14 60 ft. The old Buick is WORKING for it in this wind....

    5 - I'm back up against the Road Runner. The cars are matched but he's hot on the tree. And tree me he does, .051 to my .316. and then it's the same race all over again. He stays a car length ahead and wins with a 14.75 @ 92.34 to my 14.78 @ 91.83 - I'm officially eliminated.

    6 - Maybe I can win this one! I'm back against the 442 again..We line up and launch, and I jump out on him with a better tree and a 2.13 60 ft to his 2.46. He cant catch me and I win by a 10th with a slower 14.72 @ 92.16 to his faster but losing 14.60 @ 96.83. ...I finally win one for real!

    So that was it - I finish the 2014 season without breaking anything! Like I said, the wind was worth .3 tenths, I ran the numbers and the car is putting about 257 hp to the ground. That's 17 more than pre-rockers/lifters. Same conditions with no wind the numbers say I'd be running quicker 14.4's, but strangely no faster than I ran last week, 94.5 MPH. But it's all about the timeslips, really..numbers can be way off..

    One more thing, when I did the rockers Tom told me not only would the car be faster but get better mileage. In my head I politely call BS on Tom, I'm just not buying it. But I go for a mileage run on the way home from the track, just to see. No faster than 65 mph at about 2800 rpm the whole way, but no drafting or hypermiling techniques.... I go 83 miles on 4 gallons of gas, which is damn near 21 miles per gallon. No lie, I stuffed that 4 gallons in until it was spilling out the filler neck..And that's with 3.23's no less! I guess Tom really does know what he's talking about! As context, I'd never gotten better than 16 mpg with this car before. To be fair, it was about time that wind helped me out, I had a tailwind the whole way home.
     

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  5. 66BulldogGS

    66BulldogGS Platinum Level Contributor

    Nice work Rhett! Glad to hear the ol faithful Nailhead made it through another season. Man, with those roller rockers of Tom's that Nailhead should be darn near bullet proof. That is the weak link, the rockers and rocker shafts. Don has told me that he has limped the race car home a few times from broken rockers. From both when it was his daily driver/race car and when he was taking it out on the streets on the weekends. He used to carry a couple spare rockers in a small toolbox in the trunk. He has apparently changed a few rockers on the side of the road.
     
  6. doc

    doc Well-Known Member

    hmmmmmmm.... :Brow: The only broken nailhead rocker that I have ever encountered was already busted when I got it.... tip broke off....

    Rhett,,, every car there runs above you in class...advertised hp to wt ratio.... closest one was the Olds.... You aint got nothin to be bummed about....

    Last week , I went to BG for a day to pick up some converters that were coming back to me.... met up with my Italian buddies from Mass... good to see them and the blue car.... saw a lot of bad machines there.... had a lot of fun... saw Carl Rychlik... I think I spelled it right:laugh:

    I have some friends here that are starting up a T shirt business,,, I am having them do a shirt with the nailhead that I designed my self... It shows the internals of a nailhead with the different segments in different colors.... will post a pic when it comes in.... :Brow:
     
  7. Bigpig455

    Bigpig455 Fastest of the slow....

    Thanks Doc and Johnny- I've been known to punch above my class from time to time...

    And that poor guy in the Olds, it was like driving on ice for him... the car was not set up at all, but the motor was done and healthy, too bad he couldnt put a 1/4 of it to the ground...meanwhile I was launching like a Saturn VI, even in 45 degree weather. I think my 3 year old Eaton diff is going away though...thought I'd get longer out of it than that, and to make matters worse it's a cone type and not easily rebuildable. I'll try changing fluid and additive this winter and see what that gets me. And while I'm in, if anyone has a set of 3.55's that they're not in love with, PM me!

    Doc, put me down for one of the first shirts please!
     
  8. doc

    doc Well-Known Member

    Already had you on my list.....:laugh: Should I put a holley 3 barrel shirt in too....:laugh::laugh:
     
  9. 66BulldogGS

    66BulldogGS Platinum Level Contributor

    I don't doubt that Doc, as you wouldn't "typically" have too many problems with them out of a stock or semi-stock type of build. Does your Nailhead sound like this Angry Nailhead?? :grin: If so, then you might experience the occasional rocker failure. Not real common, but not totally uncommon either.

    I would be interested in what that shirt looks like as well, if you don't mind sir. :TU:
     
  10. doc

    doc Well-Known Member

    Hmm.... I used to be a sneaky bad dog over in the South Houston / Pasadena area down there ,,, ran a lot of races out toward Sagemont on the cut off road between old Galveston road and the Gulf freeway.... Had a 64 skylark coupe that I built into a ''65 GS''..... beat a lot of stuff around there.... good memories... hung out at the old ''Ritzee drive inn'' and Trainers in Pasadena.... :Brow::grin:
     
  11. Bigpig455

    Bigpig455 Fastest of the slow....

    Terror of Colorado Boulevard.
     
  12. Bigpig455

    Bigpig455 Fastest of the slow....

    More pics!

    IMG_2425[1].jpg IMG_2429[1].jpg IMG_2473[1].jpg
     
  13. 66larkgs

    66larkgs paul 66gs turbo nailhead

    glad to everything went great Rhett.. Nothing like finishing strong and leave without breaking anything. we still one day have to get out on the track together and have a great day of fun. Hopefully the rain will clear up and can have a dry day on sat to make some passes at New England this weekend. hopefully I have you luck and nothing breaks. Have you plaied around with a 1 inch spacer yet to see if it helps. I did the math one time at ohio tech during a hp course we were taking and we do not have nearly the volume of air needed for the CI of our engines. even thou the heads do flow lousy.
     
  14. Bigpig455

    Bigpig455 Fastest of the slow....

    Hey Paul!

    Weather looks good for this weekend, good luck and keep us posted.

    I do run a spacer, it's a 1/2 inch made from two 1/4 base gaskets sandwiched together. I have no idea whether it helps or not, but it makes me feel better about keeping the secondary air valves up out of the crossflow in the manifold plenum. I have an open 1" spacer, but I don't think I can run it for hood clearance. I'm super tight with the 1/2 as it is...
     

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