The Buick 455 was never designed as a performance engine. It was designed to make low and mid range torque. That is what accelerates a big boat heavy Electra 225. In practice, these engines never saw the high side of 4500 RPM. Stock oil pressure was 40 psi @ 2400 RPM in 1970. When the Stage1 engine program got going, Buick saw the need for some oiling improvements, bigger pick up tube, higher relief pressure, ect. We have gone way beyond what the factory envisioned for this engine. With the cylinder heads we have now, it's hard NOT TO make 500 HP. Still, I once heard Denny Manner remark, "it isn't the horsepower, it's the RPM that stresses these engines". Having said that, what do most guys build these engines for? Most build for performance, and that means more HP, and RPM. With the advent of the 350 aluminum heads, the SBB will easily exceed what it was designed to produce. If you are rebuilding an engine, it is very short sighted and foolish IMHO, not to do the oil mods. Even if you are building the engine to make stock horsepower, there are no downsides to the mods. I do understand JP's reluctance to drill out the pick up passageway. With what his intentions are for the engine in question, it isn't needed, and there are other corners he is cutting anyway. For most guys building engines here, the oil mods make sense.
Not you, I was talking about a 350 guy from another thread. His screen name is JP. http://www.v8buick.com/index.php?threads/help-with-my-little-350-please.324888/ The last 2 pages.
UPDATE! new build is at machinist/builder now, shooting for 10.1 compression, can go more if will run safely on pump 92 as thats the best available locally behind avgas 76 block, great condition good sonic check results, oiling mods still up in the air wiseco pistons 23cc dish have 284-88 cam, considering larger but want to keep the good street manners b4b and perfomer intake both on hand along with 1 inch spacer trying to decide between ta stg1 se vs edelbrock heads, $ for $ price washes out stock valve train from 70+ and 69 on hand 4.35 bore stock recon rods crank turned 1010 new clevite bearings once complete jw trishield converter th400 w shift kit 3.23 gears posi, if money allows a 2004r will get built and gears will go to 3.90 but doubtful this yr my builder has been in the industry for 40+ yrs and done every engine imaginable including all stock rebuilds for customers at my work without any issues in the 6 yrs ive been there can this combo run low 12s possibly scratch 11.98, run on pump gas AND be reliable if someone has a VERY similar combo WITH actual results would love to hear them
I went 11.60's with 1.50ish 60fts with a very similar combo little less compression, put some Molnar Rods in it too cheap not too, Im a huge stock rod advocate and have run them in all my engines but now that the Molnars are on the shelf for such short money its hard not to go with them TA heads!!! Oiling , just make sure you have a nice cover, align the oil holes in the main saddles, Teflon grooved TA cam bearings, etc Deburr the lifter valley, takes literally 20min, deburr the cast lines on the main webs Need more cam 230ish intake 240ish exhaust 530ish lift 112/114 lsa Cam you have probably isn't going to like the 10.1 comp
TA or Edelbrock heads, Molnar rods, Autotec or Diamond pistons to get you to 0 deck. http://www.v8buick.com/index.php?th...larrys-motor-complete-and-dyno-tested.252641/
BRAND NEW COVER on the shelf waiting for this build! Will the cam specs you mentioned still run power brakes?
Easily, there's alot of factors that come into play in how much vac a cam will make but generally speaking stuff along those lines will be fine
its getting the wisecos, they were already ordered and ready talked to jim earlier this week and he mentioned not to 0 deck the block because compression can go to high. larry i would love to have your build to a t, but 15k is way out of my price range, trying to work with what i got, aluminum heads took some persuasion from the from the wife to allow the extra 2500+ cost added to an already more expensive than planned build
I had Wiesco in my Orange Car , they sat .052 in the hole and I ran a .125 copper gasket with a 64cc head and the car still ran 11.60's with AC, 3.31 gear, stock suspension, 3600stall, TA Street Eliminators and a SP1 with a 950hp Cam was a 235/245 5?? 112 GSCA club cam probably a version of the Popular Mechanic shootout cam or something who knows
If it were one of the older blocks that had the smaller passages in the oiling pickup, and for your usage, I would recommend all the oiling mods, especially since it's already at the machinist/builder and should be safe in experienced hands. I think the newer blocks already have the oil passages enlarged from the factory, so you should be good to go on that already. As Larry (and others) said, it makes sense to go ahead and do them for peace of mind. My intentions were never to rock the boat so much that it caused all this mess (here and in the other thread), but to make a few valid points to instill confidence. ...although in hindsight, some very useful information came to light and hopefully it will be a benefit to everyone reading. Best wishes to you.
I'm no stranger to abusing Buick big blocks. Had 430's and 455's both. Had one '70 455 (the one with smaller oil passages, same as 430) and saw 5600-5800 RPM on a regular, daily (even hourly) basis, back in my youth. No oiling mods on any of them. Tore them all down after blowing up the 430 and one 455 (this particular 455 was the later production block with larger oil passages), and none of the failures could be attributed to poor oiling. The 430 saw so much abuse that it had a broken main bolt that was sheared off at the head from block twist. Broke a TH400 with this engine as well. I had special techniques in abusing these engines, such as holding the brake with one foot while holding the accelerator to the floor in neutral, then dropping it into gear with the brakes applied. This is in a super heavy '69 Electra. The '70 455 I later tore down to rebuild/freshen up and everything inside looked great. I was absolutely amazed and equally impressed with Buick's tough design. None of these engines saw over 6000 RPM because the stock valve springs wouldn't allow it (ask me how I know lol). Just some anecdotal stuff. Not all engines will be subjected to this abuse. I just know that these engines are tough nuts to crack. I've taken stock engines to the point of no return and back, far, far more abuse than any average user would dare, and none with spun bearings or scoring that showed poor oiling. This is simply my experience with them, and not everyone will have the same results. Who builds engines stock now anyway, right? Adding all this extra stuff and spinning them higher demands better oiling. Factory stage 1 engines with tighter valve springs could see in excess of 6000 RPM, so improved oiling on those was a logical and safe bet. No downsides to improving oiling on any engine. It has been my experience that the factory oiling passages were never a restriction to more than adequate volume and pressure, as long as you don't spin them too high. If, however, the engine is already torn down, and if you feel confident enough to drill them out yourself (or have a professional do it), then by all means--please do. I won't lose one wink of sleep over not drilling them out on any Buick engine never seeing north of 5500 RPM, but how could you ensure your customer won't spin them beyond this point? For professionals, the oiling mods are definitely a must. Their reputations are on the line, so it would be foolish not to do them on any build (unless the blocks already had them enlarged). Hope this was entertaining.
I'm tearing the old motor down this weekend more than likely and will make my decision based off what failed and what can be done to keep it from failing again
Gary, I agree on stock builds you do not need oil mods. I am doing boosted motor. Thus will do mods. Never ment any disrespect. Good points on the danger of doing the oil mods incorrectly. That's why I let Bobb do them.
I'd like to add in for reference that the 430 I mentioned above that saw all that abuse had the classic "Buick rattle" on the driver's side valve train, a clear indication that the front cam bearing had failed to do its intended purpose. It was like this when I bought the car, and before it saw all the abuse (that I gave it anyway--who knows what it saw before me), and still ran like a raped ape. Very strong runner. However, this engineering oversight has nothing to do with oil passage size in the lower end of the block; but rather, the lack of groove and poor location of oiling hole which is easily fixed with TA's wonderful product. All the 455's I had never had this issue, for some reason. All were quiet, other than the near constant sound of the Qjet secondaries opening up and the turbo mufflers. ha Maybe it had more to do with the way the engines oiled their rockers than it did with anything else (430's oiled through head vs pushrod oiling on the 455's). All the 350's I had never had this issue either, even the pre-'70 engines I owned, and they DID see past 6000 more often than they should have. In hindsight, I'd never abuse these precious engines now like I did then. I was young and foolish and didn't know what I had--but with all this came a very valuable lesson on just how durable these wonderful engines are. I've broken Ford and Dodge stuff, but not Buick stuff (other than a Buick 8.2 rear end and TH400, but that's not engine specific), and I've seen Chevy's come apart trying to keep up with my Buicks. (((I have intentionally blew up a Buick 350 by holding the throttle open for minutes at a time. It would rev up and stop revving, held wide open. It took many, many times of doing this before I finally heard a 'pop' and it started knocking (probably one of the stock rod bolts stretched to the point of finally turning loose---this was a '68 350 with the 'weaker' rods). It took so long for this to happen that I was beginning to think the engine was indestructible, and it finally happened one day. I then continued to drive the car, repeatedly revving it up (while knocking) and it finally let go in a spectacular explosion that I'll never forget. Made quite the mess.))) I've seen a Mopar 440 spin bearings because of oil starvation revving over 6000, and it didn't take but a few trips to the track to do it. Built a 455 for a guy who put it into a late '70's Trans Am with a 4.10 rear end and watched the car wind out prior to the end of the 1/4 and so the guy just held the RPMs there until he crossed the finish line. Never a spun bearing, and never opened up the oil passages. This was the '70 455 with smaller passages. He ran the engine like this countless times. ((((I need to point out that it was a stock high comp engine with some massaging techniques, but used the stock cam and valve springs, so it could not rev past 6000 even if you wanted it to---but this 'stock' engine would outperform a lot of other 'performance' engines with similar displacement))) ...but just because I've never seen it happen, doesn't mean it can't--but as Mr. Manner has said, it's the RPMs that stress these engines more than anything else.
I would worry about detonation before rpms. Of course both together are trouble. I have 2 70 455s that literally have thousands of passes on them and have never been taken apart since Buick built them. Both have been shifted at 6000 and one more like 6200. Always ran Cam2 110 at the track or at least a mix. Both have 5/8 pickup tube upgrade and the white oil spring shimmed slightly to get 80-85psi at 6000. Too many stories about bad oiling system when in most cases it is assembly, setup or user error.
