455 or 454

Discussion in 'Street/strip 400/430/455' started by stamper91, Nov 12, 2017.

  1. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    I am in agreement as well, BUT, you need 11-12 psi/1000 RPM with the BBB. A stock oil pump with correct clearances will easily do that with a Stage 1 pump spring and correct main/rod bearing clearances. If you want to wind it past 5700, the oil modifications make a lot of sense if you have it apart for a rebuild anyway.
     
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  2. TrunkMonkey

    TrunkMonkey Well-Known Member

    The "gold flakes" are put in the bearings by the manufacturer to let you know stuffs now gonna get expensive.

    Sort of like the "white smoke" in high dollar electronics.
     
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  3. stamper91

    stamper91 Well-Known Member

    I understand bearing material is the gold flakes, car went through the traps with 70 psi of oil pressure, doesn't explain why engine laid down
     
  4. 1972Mach1

    1972Mach1 Just some M.M.O.G. guy.....

    From reading your other post, it sounds like it's doing one of three things: You're losing fuel on the top end, you're having a spark break-up issue, or you're floating the valves. I'm guessing the valve float issue, but just a guess.....

    EDIT: Just reread the thread and if it stayed at 11 or 11.5:1 AFR, it's highly unlikely that you're running out of fuel, which points even more toward the valves floating. What do you have for an ignition system?
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
  5. 436'd Skylark

    436'd Skylark Sweet Fancy Moses!!!!!

    detonation destroys rod bearings even with good oil pressure.
     
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  6. stamper91

    stamper91 Well-Known Member

    From past experience detonation usually shows up on spark plugs tips, these look fine
     
  7. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Lucas, he never looked at the AFR on the track. We don't know what the gauge read. 8MPH gain in the second half of the track, I mean that had to feel absolutely flat? Leaning an engine out at WOT has to rate right up there as one of the worst things you can do to an engine. If he was floating the valves, I'd expect him to feel that in the first half of the track as well, especially at the shift points. First half of the track doesn't look all that bad.
     
  8. 1972Mach1

    1972Mach1 Just some M.M.O.G. guy.....

    Agreed, Larry. I thought I read that he crossed the line in 2nd gear, so was thinking maybe he floated briefly at the top of 1st and then was doing it pretty much all of 2nd since he was already revved up, hence the lack of increase in MPH after the 1/8 mile. Hard to tell without being there and with incomplete info (air/fuel ratio at the track, timing, etc.....)
     
  9. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    Pre-ignition doesn't always leave the same evidence as detonation. The silent killer.
    Hot plug or exhaust valve?
    Running an interference angle or full width contact?
    Just an idea.
     
  10. stamper91

    stamper91 Well-Known Member

    yep larry felt like it fell flat on its face over 4800 rpm, BUT on the street with a second gear pull, it will run to 5500 in a split second without issue. if i could i would post a vid of a 13.7 run and the run i felt hurt the motor
     
  11. TrunkMonkey

    TrunkMonkey Well-Known Member

    My post was to offer a little levity.
    Detonation. You mentioned it. It can hammer the bottom end faster than just about anything short of oiling failures.
    Pre-ignition can be worse, because the much higher pressures, and will exhibit slower runs, and similar damage.

    More guys have run a car, it's not as fast as they think it should be, they tweaked something, the car runs slower by a small amount, the adjust again, cars a little slower. Maybe a run or two more, and pack up and go home, find the same thing you did. Poor old Paint struggles to get in the barn and next day, shiny stuff in the oil.

    But only those with access to the engine and all the information can render the proper problem.

    Hope it is minimal, and you can get to your 11s.
     
  12. Mark Demko

    Mark Demko Well-Known Member

    :mad: LOL
     
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  13. Gary Farmer

    Gary Farmer "The Paradigm Shifter"

    Also, the TA grooved front cam bearing. Glad to see I'm getting support on this position here, even if I got flamed in the small block forum over it.

    Thanks, Larry.

    Hopefully, this won't be a thread derailing post, but the importance to reiterate an instilled confidence in the Buick platform as a solid foundation to work with.
     
  14. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    The point we were ALL in agreement in except for you, Vicky(AKA Gary Farmer).
     
  15. sailbrd

    sailbrd Well-Known Member

    I am going with the oiling mods that Denny Manner told me to do. Bobb Makley will do them.
     
  16. Brad Conley

    Brad Conley RIP Staff Member

    I agree. I tend to trust the engineer that designed the engine.....
     
  17. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    So you're saying the actual Buick engineer that designed the BBB 455 recommended doing the mentioned oil mods? Very interesting indeed.
     
  18. Gary Farmer

    Gary Farmer "The Paradigm Shifter"

    Incorrect, drama queen. We were all in agreement on everything except the fact that I was telling everyone it's fine for stock/mild builds, but other 'professionals' insisted it needed to be done on every single engine or else your engine would be in jeopardy of inadequate oiling, even spinning them less than 5500 RPM. This is BS.

    Denny Manner suggests doing oiling mods on more powerful builds seeing higher RPMs. Get your 'facts' straight.

    I don't know why you've painted a bullseye on my back, but you need to get over yourself.

    You'll try to twist my words to aid in your slander conquest, so I'll set the record straight right here and now.

    I recommended all oiling mods until it became clear that suggesting it to a novice would have been risky, particularly with larger drill bits, and that it would not be a necessary modification on a stockish type build.

    This is in reference to drilling out the factory oil passage from the pickup tube to the oil pump. All other oiling mods are needed for improved oil delivery and pressure, even on stock engines; this includes the TA grooved front cam bearing and oil pump remedies, which will fix and support any engine build up to a point where severe engine operation puts a greater demand on the oiling system, in which case enlarging the oil passages are the next logical step.

    This is still my stance, like it or not.
     
  19. Gary Farmer

    Gary Farmer "The Paradigm Shifter"

    The ultimate goal here is to instill confidence in Buick's design, not cast doubt and insinuate that the factory stuff is junk unless we all do every machining procedure on stock/mild builds.

    This whole oiling issue stems out of a paranoia that any work done to the engine by engine builders will ensure as close to 100% success rate on engine life and operation, and would make sense from a business and reputation standpoint.
     
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  20. TrunkMonkey

    TrunkMonkey Well-Known Member

    It would be expected the the one behind engineering realizes two (of many) things.

    1. No one makes a perfect design, time and longevity will always reveal a thing overlooked, or a weakness in the design.
    2. The designer/engineer is of good conscience and of integrity, who offers up the corrections to such findings in #1.

    That said, I do not know "Vicky"(AKA Gary Farmer), from Adam;s housecat, but I have seen enough posts to know (another) 2 things.

    1. No one has all the answers, and sometimes may provide erroneous information.
    2. Knowing this, thoughtful admonishment and kind correction helps everyone, no need to be a dick in pursuing that goal.

    Hope the OP gets a happy healthy engines that finds his elusive 11s and 12s.
     
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