455 issue with oil pump / new timing cover / missing oil pressure

Hi there!

Sorry if I don't use all the right words in the following description, I'm from Germany

A friend (professional mechanic) and I are rebuilding the engine of my '72 Buick Riviera.
Plan was, to just rebuild the heads, put in new cylinder head gaskets and that's it, as it did run very well before.
After we were done with that, the engine ran well again, but suddenly, the stupid crankshaft rope gasket and the retainer ring holding it inside the timing cover went to hell.

Thus I decided to go for a new timing cover with a normal gasket ring and ordered the Proform timing cover: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-69510/overview/make/buick

We installed the cover and even though the casting of that thing is a bit rough, it fit just fine.
Reassembled everything, tested the oil pump gear through the distributor hole, it turned just fine, so we fired up the engine today.
It ran, but a strange sound and the oil warning lamp told us, that something's off.

We took off the oil pump (still the original pump and the original gears) and were VERY surprised to see... nothing.
No oil at all, the two gears were totally dry.

We also removed the seal, that still clung to the part of the timing cover, which connects to that plate below the gears and were surprised again: The Proform timing cover is missing a groove, that the original cover had and which can also be seen in the Buick 1972 service manual:



Of course it might be, that this is part of what Proform describes as "Optimizes OEM design", but we're not sure...
I wasn't able to find pictures of that area of the Proform cover online to compare, if there SHOULD be a groove, but I found a pic of the TA Performance timing cover (twice as expensive as the Proform) and the TA Performance cover doesn't have that groove either:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/gearbox-yearone-com/part-images/ta_tz/tc400.png

My friend tends to think, that the missing groove is a miscast, I think, it's constructed like this on purpose.
If he's right, we need another timing cover, if I'm right, we just can't explain, why there's no oil pressure.

Do you guys have any idea?
Does anyone have experience with those third party timing covers?
Would it be possible, that we need a high volume oil pump kit or something like that?

I'd really appreciate if someone here can take the time to help
I do love that car (and a car like that is much more exceptional here in Germany than in the US ) but at the moment, it's driving us mad...

Cheers!

 

Did you fill the oil pump with vaseline before assembling and did you turn it long enough (not just to check if it spins) without the distributor so that the pump had a chance to suck oil? I use a tool to drive the oilpump with my power drill and when the pump is filled with oil and starts pumping you feel a noticable difference in torque.

 

WoW. That passage way missing makes no sense to me.. Hopefully someone knows..

 

Thanks a lot for your input!

We did not fill the oil pump with vaseline but I'm pretty sure, he turned the input shaft with a drill. Will ask him tomorrow, it's about bedtime here now
Will also check your thread on oil pumps tomorrow @LARRY70GS, looks very interesting!

 

Even without Vaseline, wouldn’t spinning the gears with a drill still get the oil moving?

 

The proform cover is fine in that that passage is a dead end in the stock cover- it doesnt go anywhere

 

I have a proform cover, but I have the HV gears in my race motor and scavenger pickup, so not an apples to apple comparison, mine does not have that slot either, I see well well over 100 psi above 2500 on warm oil......but again not a direct comparison

 

Thanks a ton for all of your Information, this helps a lot!

So the most important thing we forgot is to fill up Vaseline / grease into the oil pump. Will correct this on friday and turn the gears with a power drill to get oil pressure before firing up the engine again.

Also, good to know that the missing passage way on the Proform timing cover is missing on purpose

Finally: Wow, your thread regarding oil pump clearence is highly informative, Larry, thank you!
I actually even do have a HV gear kit with spacer plate here, but we hesitated to use it exactly because of the increased load on the front of the engine that you mention in your thread Larry. Thus we decided to go with the original gears.
We did not, however, check for clearance in the way you describe, I also don't have those gaskets with different thicknesses here. Looks like another order in the US is necessary

 

The clearance on end play is 100% a must do...........I know it's an issue an delay in ordering from the US, but do your motor the favor and do it right.

Of you have a pressure gauge, even a temporary one you can install, do it, and run the drill, you will hear and feel when it loads up with oil but fully verify.

I even drill my race motor b4 every spring start. I run 2 or 3, 2 minute durations

 

Hi everyone,

just a small update here - can be summarized with the Statement of my friend, who's a mechanic for 40 years now: "Something like that has never happened before"...

Filled the pocket with the gears up with Vaseline, assembled the oil pump, clearance was fine, left the oil filter off to make sure, that oil is coming and used a special tool to turn the gears through the distributor hole with a drill.
Everything worked as it should, oil/Vaseline poured out of the oil pump.
So we assembled the distributor and fired up the engine. It worked and sounded fine, but suddenly, after about 20 seconds, the "oil" warning lamp switched on again.

We stopped the engine, screwed off the oil filter, removed Vaseline residue inside the oil pump head, screwed on a new oil filter and started the engine, which was back to the clacking sound typical for missing oil pressure. Stopped immediately and disassembled the oil pump again.

We just stood there in disbelief seeing this:


The left gear has eaten into the side wall of the Timing cover pocket
The gears blocked and the connector of the Distributor has ripped off the top of the gear shaft of the right gear We can't pull the right gear back out, the shaft is contorted.
As there is only one way to install the left gear (just put it on the short fixed shaft inside the pocket) our only explanation is, that the timing cover is not machined correctly. Turning the gears with a drill worked, but the much higher rpm of the actual engine driving the gears was too much (?)

Suffice to say, we're more than annoyed. We have to disassemble everything again, check for metal residue and of course the two small top parts of the gear shaft, which hopefully lie safe and sound inside the timing cover and not somewhere else, check if the camshaft has taken damage (the distributor connector seems to be fine) etc. pp....
Then I will have to order a new timing cover (maybe go for TA right away...) and a new oil pump kit (or go for the complete set by TA) and assemble everyhting anew.

Will keep you updated with our ordeal

 

First thing, install a REAL oil pressure gauge, don't rely on the lamp
Install a TA fully assembled timing cover, and HOPE the engine is quiet, and you have good oil pressure indicated on your NEW OIL PRESSURE GAUGE
If it turned fine with the drill, probably all was well, but somehow something went thru the pump and locked up the gears afterwards

 

I know when finishline set up my cover there was side clearances that needed to done. I watched bobb use very tiny shims around the gears.

We had to replace a gasket between the scavenger unit and booster plate. When reassembled the gears would not turn. The clearances in there are very very close when done correctly. After a few attempts in bolting back together I was able to not distort things and get it to turn smoothly and easily by hand.


It is possible to have an interference and still be able to turn it by the drill but after it kept rubbing it get worse.

You said you only ran the drill till the oil came out the filter hole, so just a few seconds........I run my drill a couple of minutes , 2 or 3 times, when I prime up motors.

But it sounds like ordering a preassemblied cover from ta or finishline so you know all the clearances are right b4 your start again. I hope and wish that you find all the pieces and not more damage is done in the end

 

If the pick up tube has vibrated loose and or cracked it will not pull oil

 

I hope you were filling the oil filter with oil before screwing on.....

 

Nothing WAS wrong with the timing cover to cause the damage you're seeing.

That oil pump ingested debris that locked-up the gears and ruined the drive tangs at the top of the gear shaft that meshes with the distributor.

The debris is/was the problem, not the pump, not the distributor, not the Vaseline, not the oil, and probably not the pickup tube. The big questions are whether the debris can be located and removed, (Is it trapped in the oil filter you now need to cut apart) and whether there's more in the pan or the pickup tube waiting to do the same damage to the next oil pump.

It would be worth your time to verify everything in the oil pump drive system, particularly the distributor gear and it's roll-pin.

Yes.

Anything more than enough to see oil pressure on the gauge is wasted effort.

The pump locked up. Has nothing to do with the pickup tube unless the tube had debris lodged in it, or the screen on the end has big holes in it that allow debris in the pan to be sucked past the screen and into the pump.

Makes no difference. The oil filter will fill with oil during priming, or the engine will be like millions and millions of others that got oil-changes without filling the filter before starting the engine. The filter is filled within a few seconds of engine running. It's of no consequence at all.

 

Before it locked it up they ran it with it pulling no oil,..if there was no oil that would certainly be a contributing factor to the pump eating itself. I have pulled one 455 apart that had poor oil psi and the screen was replacement deal and it had came unlocked and there was some big chunks of sealer blocking stuff up. But only seen that once,. I've seen a few loose pickups. Also check the pin for the idler gear, I've seen many stock covers with a loose pin,.if it's in there rocking around you gonna have issues

If a pickup isn't sealed it's just like a straw with a crack in the side,...no milkshake comes out ha

 

Some might be ok with just seeing oil pressure on the gauge and calling it good.

For me the couple of extra minutes to know I get pressure to all the parts, in the lifters etc is time I have........better safe than sorry