455 build with single turbo direction needed

Discussion in 'Street/strip 400/430/455' started by Grizzly_steve, Sep 19, 2019.

  1. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    For something that will see the kind of abuse you describe certainly,..my Crower took 14months,..due in part to a hold up at TA but even still was 10months before it was ground and awaiting bob weight info. That's just my experience with the crank deal.

    There are just too many guys that have 600 to 700hp stock block NA setups that live year after year to ignore them. My stock rod 464 with no girdle was 650NA then I bolted a F1c-94 Procharger on it,..and while I never "Ran" it with the blower i did lean on it a few times. Now i had better sense than to think that was going to last sure,. So it came out.

    I just feel like based on the OP's language he just doesn't need to blow 15 to 20k on a longblock. An aluminum head 9.5 to 1 iron block would be just fine imo. I just dont want guys to think they MUST spend huge money to make 750hp especially not with a turbo. I still say 95% of iron block failures in the 600 to 750hp range are tuning and or rpm/balance issues

    I get the the whole fiscal side of it. .I too weighed those options but simply because a fully prepped ready to assemble iron block is within $1k~1500 of a Tomahawk isn't the whole picture. There are all the other cost that just aren't there with an Iron block. Dont get me wrong I wish I didn't have to sell my Tomahawk stuff, I was really close to having everything I needed but life dictated otherwise ha.

    I also prefer 1/8mile that alone makes stuff in mentioned power range last much much longer,..that back half of the track is where the bad stuff happens,..
     
  2. Brandon Cocola

    Brandon Cocola Well-Known Member

    I was thinking a iron block could do it just as stated. I mean if you want an aluminum block for what ever reason that is up to you.
     
  3. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    By all means if you are patient and have money to blow like that have at it,..it will only better and allow for future upgrades/power

    My next combo is going to be a 488 NA deal with 700 to 750hp and run around on 93,..I honestly have no reservations regarding strength I'm going to girdle it simply because I picked one up very reasonable and its certainly not going to hurt the cause. But I know how often it will be used and I'm confident in keeping the tune up in where it needs to be as well as keeping the rpm under 7k
     
  4. 436'd Skylark

    436'd Skylark Sweet Fancy Moses!!!!!



    How many guys have actually hurt a BBB block? I know plenty of folks deep into the 11s in full dress cars who have had no issues and beat them to death for years. I know they break but I don't think it's the epidemic its believed to be. Ask the sbb crowd and they think split blocks are stacked like cord wood.

    Also I work with a crazy mopar guy. He has built several high HP race type 440s. He tells me the stock 440 block gets sketchy at 650-700 hp.
     
  5. sailbrd

    sailbrd Well-Known Member

    So let me be the one to pour some cold water on this. You said,"I am not at all mechanical." Then you propose to build the only turbocharged 455 Riviera in the world. This project is not for beginners. Someone needs to throw this out here.
     
  6. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    Some basic info to help get you going:

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    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
  7. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    I do think that it is a great idea to do a single turbo engine! Just have TA set it up as a normal engine with a few exceptions.

    9:1 compression, no need for head porting just out of the box TA heads, custom turbo cam grind, and larger piston ring gaps compared to a NA engine. The best thing about a boosted engine is you can use a super mild camshaft that still gives high vacuum for accessories, and it doesn't need to rev to make power. The mid range HP and TQ is insane. Properly setup there is NO turbo lag. The turbo only gives boost when it's needed, they drive great on the street. You can basically build an engine without worrying about how much power it makes and then add 50-100% more power gently with the boost.

    I would use a carb, there are people making 2500 HP these days with CSU carbs. My CSU carb was perfect out of the box, he custom builds them.
     
  8. GraySky

    GraySky Well-Known Member

    I have considered this often and will likely go that direction with my 69 Skylark. I think that the only realistic way to do it is twins, and efi. Twins for the amount of efficient air required, and efi for guaranteeing the right operating conditions. The thing that kills motors is more often improper fueling and overboost. The right control system makes that much less likely.
     
  9. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    On boost and only wanting 750 HP, why not use a sbb 350?

    With a set of the new TA sbb 350 heads ported and boost it should be relatively easy to make that kind of power with 100 less cubes than 455(.030" overbore would make it a 355). You can get the girdle that Gary Paine makes for the sbb 350 for extra insurance, probably don't need a billet crank at that power level but wouldn't hurt if you wanted to crank up the boost later on.

    A billet crank and the G/P girdle and aftermarket forged rods higher RPM shouldn't be a concern at all with a properly setup sbb 350.

    A sbb 350 will give more room under the hood as well for the turbo plumbing. So there you go, the same amount of HP for a lot less than using the aluminum block. Here is a boosted example of a stroker sbb 350/370 that made 50% more HP with a measly 6 PSI of boost;

    http://www.v8buick.com/index.php?threads/the-dyno-numbers-are-in.200499/

    Went from a 422 HP to 630 HP on the 6 PSI of boost! They eventually cranked it up to 750 HP but they were breaking drive train parts(the 400TH and rear end IIRC) at that level and the rest of the story is being withheld until Sean has his book published! The car is even on the Finishline Performance website but that car is the only one not posting QM times or power output!!! Must be a good combo though because they haven't changed it since they built it.

    The above was with cast iron heads that only flowed 235 intake CFM and 195 exhaust CFM! With a sbb 350 that makes a naturally aspirated 500 HP with a set of the new TA heads and some porting at the same 6 PSI if this one works like the above one you would have your 750 HP.

    The Tomahawk aluminum block is a very cool piece but IMO not necessary unless someone wanted to make more than what your goal is.

    Also at your power level why not consider a self tuning fuel injection system like FiTech just for example;

    https://fitechefi.com/products/30012/
     
    sean Buick 76 likes this.
  10. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    There is no need for a twin turbo setup to provide adequate air. I still prefer twin because it’s easier to package two small turbos vs one. I also prefer dual exhaust over single. But $ for $ the single is the winner.

    The CSU Holley carbs are super good right out of the box. We literally bolted it on, set the idle mixture screws and had perfect air fuel ratios at all street situations and under boost. He custom build them for the application and then offers support if you need tuning help. People are using CSU carbs for daily drivers as well as 2500 Hp race cars. No wiring, no injectors, just a reliable simple setup.

    I do like the idea of a Turbo Buick 350 there are several reasons it’s attractive.

    1. You don’t need an expensive block or crank. The 350 is strong. The deep skirted mains are easy to add a girdle to and hold things tight.
    2. Smaller lighter package.
    3. You don’t need huge cubes when using a turbo. Guys are making 1000 Hp easy with 327” LS engines. There is no reason 700 Hp can’t be done with a 400 Hp NA buick 350.
     

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    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
  11. Mark Demko

    Mark Demko Well-Known Member

    I agree with Sean, single turbo and a carb.
    With the single turbo, you have BOTH exhaust banks spinning the turbine, verses just one each with twins.
    Packaging is simpler.
    A carb is much simpler than EFI
    With EFI, you have to replace everything from the tank forward, baffles, pump, lines, wiring, sensors, computer/s then tuning.
    People think EFI adds power, it doesn't, its more so for emissions
     
  12. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    Packaging a single large enough to properly keep up with 455 or more cid, isn't as easy as one would think we're talking about a 60lb T6 chassis with a 5in down pipe. Granted you can reduce it down but for best performance you must keep backpsi off the exhaust wheel for several inches. The inlet is 5.5 and 6in,.t4 chassis rite off the manifolds is the best and most compact approach to twins. Twin also are more manageable in regards to power management,.big singles come in hard,..at once and often while full as hell make traction challenging.

    A fella could use a 88mm T4 with a large AR on a low rpm 455 and make copious amounts of torque and still maintain enough map to get it through the traps. But those are $$$ a BWs480 is $900 twin 76's can be had for $350 each thru ON3 wouldn't be my choice for a manufacturer but they are pretty proven units.
     
    sean Buick 76 likes this.
  13. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    A small bore 400 or 430 block would be my choice for a few reasons
    1. Strength thicker cyl walls are what you want with boost
    2. No need for 540in to make 750 pump gas hp
    3. 400 to 440in would make 750 at a very safe rpm and do it without the boost you would need for less cubic in
    4. Better heads = less boost while you dont need nice flowing heads they help in a few ways,..one octane tolerance, which will allow more boost at the same compression level. Turbos are lazy they dont pull the air they push it in so the easier you make the air flow the less they work and the more efficient they are and the lower the IAT's will be
     
    sean Buick 76 likes this.
  14. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    Good points Hugger! I was considering a 400 block for this purpose! A girdle and some nice heads, easy 450 Hp NA and then add boost.
     

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