A little bit of luck but it's brains and all the hard work Besides the class your running in, how strong is that itch that want's you to put on the Q-jet, the Toms rockers, some headers, a ST400 and some 3.90's out back??
Strong. And I've got all of it on the shelf. I can see 3.73's going in over the winter, and the Q-Jet will be there regardless (maybe sooner than later, the AFB leaks after shutoff, never been able to cure that) . I have a brand new set of GSCA headers that are sooo beautiful, but I'm really over headers. And I love a good 400, but Tom and I have always considered it a wash if I'm running stock tires. I dont need the lower 1st gear, or the addl 20 HP parasitic mass/drag. Now if I was running slicks, it'd be a different story, I'd need the durability. But first things first, lets get a win in my shootout at the PSMCDR next week and go from there.
I've read (and cant vouch for accuracy): Tranny - HP lost to turn it Powerglide/ST300 ~15 th350 ~35 th400 ~45 That would explain why Powergides are still VERY popular in racing.
I just figured when some are running, 700, 800 hp and 4:88's and up with big slicks there's not much need for that low first gear and shifting 2 times on top of that. Reading Pop Kennedy's 65 GS 1/4 mile car notes, he picked up .10 sec and 1 mph when he switched to the SP400 but he had 4:30's. I would think his 60 ft times or the 1000 ft mark was way quicker though?? Loving all your thinking and hard work
The PG/ST300 first gear ratio probably hurts heavier cars that need to rev to make power more so than a Nailhead. The SP converter also covers a lot of deficiency. I think it was the old "Car Life" article on the 65 Skylark Gran Sport that said "the engine is strong where the transmission is weak, and the transmission is strong where the engine is weak" . I'm not surprised in Pop's results, on a geared car with slicks, yet I'd almost expect my car to be a wash.. Thats doesnt mean I'll never try it though, I've been dreaming up an ST400 with a later valvebody (my personal choice is 71 Delta 88), 12 inch converter, Torrington thrust, 34 element sprag and what ever lightweight internals I can pick up used. I LOVE a TH400 like I love my Q-Jets..
Some don't even get that because now they have a TRACTION problem. TH400 is 40HP between the flywheel & tail shaft. 10HP can be eliminated with a Torrington needle bearing taking place of the rear thrust washer. Using lighter parts can also help that, BUT may also cut down the reliability/strength. PLUS it ALSO weighs more. Weight is HP. It's a very fine line. A more powerful engine or higher weight ALL contributes. Just my thoughts on the subject. Tom T.
Tom, is the switching over to a SP400 on Bob's 66 GS more for durability or gear ratio's over a SP300? You had mentioned that with the added weight of the SP400, you weren't quite sure of possible new ET's.
The car sounded good and looked good going down the track today! Glad we finally got to meet you Rhett!
OK so this whole thread has been leading up to one thing – the 2019 Pure Stock Muscle Car Drags. How did we do? (BTW, if you don’t want to read all this, go to the next thread for the spoiler summary…) Despite the engine still having noise issues, it only really had to run 4 more times: 1 qualifier and 3 match runs at the PSMCDR. Besides, It wasn’t throwing metal in the filter, had good oil pressure, good temps, good vacuum, great throttle response and made great power. So we loaded it on an open trailer and drove 13 hours in the rain to Michigan. Friday was a half day rain out and shortened afternoon/evening qualifier, and the air was poor with about a 2500ft DA and we had a fairly constant 20mph headwind. But the car was running pretty well, and although we couldn’t match our Musclepalooza best ET’s of 2 weeks prior, after 7-8 runs it generally ran 14.3’s@96, with my buddy beating my best (in my own car) with a 14.21 @ 96.69 that wound up being my qualifying time. . So while we were slow, so was everyone else and we did have some surprise victories against a 68 AMX 390, 68 Hurst Olds and 70 GSX Stage 1 (that slept at the light) Saturday morning we had two hours of test and tune, and much better air. Shootout pairings were available early, so I picked mine up to find I was paired against a 69 Hurst Olds, that qualified at a 14.0 to my 14.2. If the Nailhead didn’t pick up another couple tenths in the better air, this thing could be over before it began. So I staged, ran and cracked off a 14.10 @ 97.1. Better, but that Olds was only gonna get faster too. I drove around until I spotted him, introduced myself and asked him if he wanted to make a pass against me before the shootout. Nice guy named Bob, member of some Midwest Hurst Olds club, and his car is spotless. It was a configured with an auto and 3.90 gear, and he said he was new to this and it had never been run, but down with the opportunity so we staged and ran. Well, Bob the Novice knocked out a .158 tree to my surprised .250. However, I got that tenth and more back when I hit my best 60 ft of the event with a 2.01, and Bob spun a little for a 2.27. I put a fender on him, and at the 330 I’m ahead by .2. And that's where we stay, me looking out my passenger window at the nose of that Olds at the stripe, winning with a 14.07 @ 97.1 to the Olds’14.25 @ 97.4. So what did I learn? The cars are dead equal, with the Olds 455 maybe having a slight edge. And Novice Bob is a tree killer. The shootouts are a best 2 out of 3 format, and we begin at 2. Weather is about 70 degrees, 66% humidity and about a 1800 ft DA. With better air, many racers are worried about the .3 breakout disqualification rule Round 1 – We stage and launch. The Olds pulls a .193 tree, and I bobble the 3rd yellow to what I thought was a redlight. Except it wasn’t, I had pulled a .079 light, and the Buick claws out a 2.03 60ft, to Bob’s hooked 2.059. The cars are EXACTLY the same at the 330 ft, we both ET a 5.868. At the 1/8, I pull an .002 ET advantage, but he’s got a full mph on me. Same as before, his fender hangs outside my passenger window across the stripe, he pulls a 14.12 @ 97.12 to my slower but winning 14.15 @ 96.53. I win by .081, and only cause I treed him. Round 2 – Less said the better: I sleep at the tree and cut a .319 to his excellent .114. We both 60 at 2.04, and between there and the stripe he gains a tenth on me, winning with a 13.99 @ 97.44 to my 14.10 @ 97.11. Going into Round 3 we’re 1-1, I know he’s a good driver, Bob’s getting faster while I’m getting slower, and if I’m gonna take the shootout, it can only happen at the tree. Round 3 – I shut out all distractions to hit the best tree I can. Bob knows I will concentrate on the tree, and he has to be better. We stage, launch and both lanes red light! I grab a fender at the launch and I don’t know what the hell’s going on, but he’s not backing off and neither am I! The run itself is just like the others – the slip shows we have identical 2.03 60 foots, but he’s up by a tenth at the 330 and holds that through the run. To the spectator, I grab an early lead and he starts to close the gap. The time slip shows I run a 14.09 @ 97.48 to his 13.99 @ 97.31, but his red light was redder at -.069 to my -.015 for a net win margin of .1548 seconds. By the margin of a tenth and a half, race and shootout goes to the little Skylark, 2 out of 3 (or 3 out of 4, depending if you count the qualifier run) And like that, it’s over. Car goes back on the trailer, I go find Bob in the pits to say goodbye and let him know how much I enjoyed racing him. He totally kept me on my toes, and the pairing of the Olds and Buick made this a drivers race. He’s a great sport and agrees. When I express some skepticism on his novice status, he says “ Oh I just meant it’s my first time here.. I’ve been racing for 30 years….” Had to laugh at myself... Some stats against 2018 PSMCDR field averages: Best ET: 14.07 (13.65 2018 ave. qualifying) Best MPH: 97.48 (102.41 2018 ave. qualifying) Best 60 foot : 2.036 (2.09 2018 ave - round 1) Best RT: .079 (.182 2018 ave - round 1)
Summary - Won my 2019 shootout against a 69 Hurst Olds Ran an average of 14.31 @ 96.5 in qualifying Won first shootout with a 14.15 @ 96.5 to the Olds 14.12 @ 97.12 Lost second shootout with a 14.10 @ 97.11 to the Olds 13.99 @ 97.44 Won third shootout with a 14.09 @ 97.48 to the Olds 13.99@ 97.31
Possible? I'm saving any chassis or gear work till I dial in the motor. it's got to come out again to find this noise. Whatever is making that noise will HAVE to have left a mark by now....
Quick update on the pure stock build: Been running it pretty hard, and for the greater part has been running 14.0's pretty consistant, with an occasional dip into high 13.9's. Did a track test and tune last Friday, and was able to play with it a little. The air was ok when I got there, did three baseline runs in the 14.0'@ 96mph. I then tried a 1/2 spacer under the carb, and immediately ran 3 back to back runs at mid 13.9's @ 97. Had to quit when the trans got hot and started to act up, cause it's still my ride home. Had to do a parade on Saturday, and the motor had a bad miss.. thought to was going to die on me right on the route. Got it home and discovered my homemade spacer had a bad vacuum leak, and it was running way lean. Changed the spacer to a phenolic unit with new gaslets but it still wasnt running right. Brought it up to LVD on Sunday for the Supercar Shootout race...first qualifying run the car was down on power, ran a 14.4...went back to the pits, backed the timing down from 34 to 30 total degrees, and went to a very rich secondary rod. For whatever reason, that woke the car right up, and I ran in the mid-high 13.8's for the rest of the day. We ran a round-robin, three way elimination: First Round - Ran Jeremy Benson's Yellow Trans Am, he spun at the line and I got away from him Second Round: Was a bye run for me, no opponent. Video shows haw crazily quiet the 65 is at full throttle Third Round: Ran a new build, a 74 Z/28 belonging to Chris Kuskowski. I jumped him and held him off for 3/4 down the track, but he snuck by me at the stripe. Cant win 'em all! Here are the video links I thought would show up as embedded videos... Round 1: <iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php…" width="560" height="315" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true" allowFullScreen="true"></iframe> Round 2: <iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php…" width="560" height="315" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true" allowFullScreen="true"></iframe> Round 3: <iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php…" width="560" height="315" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true" allowFullScreen="true"></iframe> View attachment upload_2019-10-7_21-40-26.jpeg View attachment upload_2019-10-7_21-36-34.jpeg
i would guess it was detonating , you cant really hear it some times. never had a nailhead run any better with any thing over 32*. i know you have a good compression ratio. found that the nailhead will knock as easy as any motor, even though everybody says the head design keeps it from doing it. dome pistons don't help either, but we have no choice. ethanol does need a degree or 2 extra timing. anyways you have it running really good. nice to know about the 1/2 in spacer. was it an open spacer ?
