4 speed speedometer + speed alert & pointed lense

Discussion in 'Ebay Parts and Cars' started by gobuick, Jun 17, 2007.

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  1. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    Im sure its plausible that Buick may have used automatic trans cases for the 4 speed speedos. They were building production cars on a strict timetable, not concours correct musclecars. Sometimes the wrong parts were used because thats what was at their disposal at the time.

    John Csordas's (Skyhawk) white GSX had red striped rocker mouldings from the factory. Technically incorrect, but that probably what was within arms reach of the guy putting the car together.

    I bet you once the speedo is installed, your not going to be able to see the cutout in the case. I doubt Duane is going to crawl under the dash and liik for the cutout in the metal case
     
  2. gobuick

    gobuick Silver Level contributor

    Jason, You have that back wards. The outer cases are 4 speed, they used the same face with the cut out on 4 speeds & automatics.
     
  3. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    Frank, I think what was in dispute was wether some 4 speed speedos came with the slot cut in the bottom of the steel case for the auto indicator. I contend that some may of came that way either from the factory or NOS. Ive learned that there are no absolutes when it comes to these cars.

    All 4 speed speedo faces do seem to have the cutout at the base though.


    As an aside, I think Herb (BostonGSX) had a way of removing the "PRNDL" on the auto speedo face.
     
  4. gobuick

    gobuick Silver Level contributor

    Well I would really like to thank :blast: Andrew Skidmore for ruining a perfectly good sale off this speedometer. Seems the buyer read Andrews false statement that this wasn't a true 4 speed speedometer & now wants to back out of the deal. Andrew, the next time you spout off about somethings authenticity please try & at least have the facts correct. If there's anything I can do to help you out, you make sure & let me know.
     
  5. Duane

    Duane Member

    Well guys now that the sh** has hit the fan, and the sale is over, how about I try to give some info to put theses issues to bed.

    1. First off I don't know why Andrew Skidmore has a problem with James Weinman giving him accurate information. James just finished building a Gold level Concours car. He had Mark Reeves, of Then & Now Resto, do the chassis and paint, but James did a ton of the finish work himself. You gain a lot of knowledge regarding subtle differences in parts when you build a car to this level, so if you don't want to follow his advise, no problem, but get ready for the "answers" you will receive on the show field.

    2. Because this discussion was going on, and it peaked my interest, I decided to call a few experts that have built and /or owned original 4-speed cars to see what they had to say. The answers were all the same, and were identical to what James & others have posted here.

    The 3 & 4-speed speedometer faces do have the cutout on the face, like the automatics do, however the outside cases on the original 4-speed speedometers do not have the cut outs for the “PRNDL” lever. This is how the parts were when installed at the time of production.

    3. It is important to base your knowledge of these cars by the parts that actually came off the cars rather then what some NOS part looks like. The idea that a part (in the GM parts distribution network) remained the same even if it was manufactured years after the cars were built is just plain stupid. It is fine to site NOS parts as examples, like JDB did, but they should be referenced against original pieces before confirming they are indeed correct.

    If you don't take the above advice you run the risk of paying big money for an incorrect part, and more importantly not realizing an original part is correct when you see it. (It appears that exactly this occurred here, an original part was not recognized.)

    4. Neither I, nor any other judge, have any intention of crawling under anyone's dash to see if the case has cutouts. We are not allowed to get inside the car let alone crawl around in there.

    To recap, according to the experts/original owners I have talked too, the manual speedo's have the same face as the automatics with the "PRDNL" lettering removed, but with no holes in the outer case.

    Duane

    PS. Some of the 70 GSX's, like John Csordas's White GSX, did come with red striped rocker moldings from the factory. This has been well documented, and is another example where you need to look at the actual parts on the cars, rather then believe what you think is correct.
     
  6. Hawken

    Hawken Hawken

    I have seen some pretty wide variances in parts come in replacement NOS boxes from GM when compared to what I know was an OEM part, especially where assemblies are concerned (made up of many other parts). Maybe Buick assembled whatever remaining parts it had (lots & lots of automatic outer cases) and put 'em into the distribution channel to get rid of them. No doubt Buick would have produced a VERY tiny number of 4 Speed speedo cases considering the miniscule fraction of production and demand for this equipment.

    Aside from personal matters in this post, this is some really, really good info.
     
  7. Duane

    Duane Member

    If you think about it ALL the outer cases started out as 3 & 4-speed cases. Then the cases were "pierced" to cut the holes out for the automatic units.
    Duane
     
  8. Hawken

    Hawken Hawken

    Is the outer Buick '70-'72 A-body guage/speedo case shared with any other GM division (Olds, etc.)?

    Didn't '70-'72 Olds A-bodies have similar size & number guage "pods" in the instrument clusters?
     
  9. Hawken

    Hawken Hawken

    Understood. I did not mean to imply that the manual vs. automatic cases were so different in the manufacturing process ... the manual cases just "removed" from the piercing pocedure of the automatic cases.

    But likewise, since we're talking about a massive production line and process, it would be doubtful Buick would "pierce" on demand and just built an inventory of components to use based upon production plans (way more automatic assemblies). And I further doubt Buick kept single cases (blank unpierced cases) on hand or at least in limited quantities as the pieces probably wound up being moved to assembled clusters ready for use on the assembly line or residual parts moved into the parts/NOS channel.

    Then, at the end of the production run ('72), you're left w/ a lot of assembleies and other parts that have to go somewhere ... the "NOS" route. It's the accounting Department's revenge on the Engineers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2007
  10. Ryans-GSX

    Ryans-GSX Have fun, life is short.

    Well said Duane. :TU:

    I reread my erlier post and I dont think I stated it as clearly as you did in your post.

    James : you are correct about the speedo and gobuick's is in fact a correct 4spd speedo. James I wish I had more time when we met at the nationals to have talked to you. Your car was one of the most correct cars I have seen. You must have done a lot of homework and a lot of phone calls to make sure what was correct and what was not IE: Front wheel well screws :TU:

    gobuick : I am sorry you are loosing a sale on this correct part. If I have added fuel to this fire and caused someone to think your part is not correct I sincerely apologize. This was not my intent. I feel we should all talk about the parts and find out from each other what is correct and your part is correct. If the buyer reads all these post he will see we agree your part is correct. Your picture of the front of the speedo in your ebay add looked as if I could see carpet though the bottom of the case making me think it had the cut out but after you posted the picture of the bottom of the case it is clear that it is solid and not cut out.
     
  11. TXGS

    TXGS Paint by numbers 70 GS 455 4spd

    James I am a long way out on my 70 GS 455 4spd.

    Here is a pic of my speedometer. It is an early conical lense speedometer however I have a flat lense on it for now.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. TXGS

    TXGS Paint by numbers 70 GS 455 4spd

    Another pic
     

    Attached Files:

  13. gobuick

    gobuick Silver Level contributor

    Thanks Ryan, I don't think your post caused the problem.

    I would like to thank Duane & Ryan for clearing this up.
     
  14. Andrew Skidmore

    Andrew Skidmore Well-Known Member

    First off save your gun shots for someone else.

    Second of all I spoke with ajesh in person and you should not be mad at me that your selling a misrepresented part he does not want to waste #300+ dollars on. Every stick speedo outer casing I have seen does not have the hole in it, as the last pic shows. Show me a pic that is a true 4 speed speedometer that has the hole in the outer case? Please do, I would love to see it.

    There is a good reason Mr. Weinman and myself do not get along, after all do your board research and you will see exactly why. I would rehash it for you, but I am sure JW would not want me to take that road, or maybe James can tell you himself.:Brow:
    He knew before he even posted that I would not take his word for anything, my god he even said this in his first post.

    When I need advice from you "gobuick" I will make sure to ask someone else. Thanks:TU:
     
  15. Andrew Skidmore

    Andrew Skidmore Well-Known Member

    Last but not least, what exactly has been cleared up?
    I have not seen any advancement in this thread to see what I have said is wrong, Historically, or documentation wise.
    For a group of people to step up against me with neither of these under their belt makes me wonder if this thread is starting to turn against me for what I have stated to be the truth that I have seen with my own two eyes.

    For what may have been put on the car at the assembly line may have had a hole in the outer case, but who has an original one that wants to step forward and show me the part #'s and pics of that supposedly correct speedo with a hole in the case???
     
  16. gobuick

    gobuick Silver Level contributor

    Andrew, Go back to post #8, the picture clearly shows the solid case.
     
  17. JDB

    JDB Well-Known Member

    Andrew,

    Can you post photos of your correct 4-speed speedo.

    Thanks
     
  18. Duane

    Duane Member

    After you go back and look at the clearly solid "no holes" case in post # 8 you can go back and read my post where I state,

    "To recap, according to the experts/original owners I have talked too, the manual speedo's have the same face as the automatics with the "PRDNL" lettering removed, but with no holes in the outer case."

    That clearly states that the original 4-speed cases had no holes in the outer case.
    Duane

    PS. I know Ajesh very well, we speak about these cars/parts often. So if he sees this and would like to call and talk about this part he has my number.
     
  19. JDB

    JDB Well-Known Member

    Frank,

    Is the 4-speed speedo still for sale.

    Let me know and I will buy it.

    Thanks
     
  20. Andrew Skidmore

    Andrew Skidmore Well-Known Member

    ROFL, you guys are hilarious.
    Ok, look at gobuick's ebay auction. Is there a hole in the outer case? Yes.

    So having that said, what are you trying to show me by post #8?
    What about post #31 and #32??? What does that show you, no hole in the outer case?>>>> Hmmmmmmmmm.....
     
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