My 364 has one piston smashed, so I need to rebuild the engine. The engine is out of a 58 special, so it has the low comp pistons in it. Can anyone tell me if the higher comp pistons fit and if they don't, why not. I have seen this asked before but I don't think it got answered. I also have to do head work, but a little away from that bit yet. Basically just need to know if the high comp pistons can and will go onto the special rods and if there are any clearance problems. Seems silly to put low comp pistons back in if the high comp ones go in the same. Cheers Mick
Apparently quite common on a nailhead. The engine was stuck when I got the car and this is what I found when I got it apart
Can you look up the difference in lengths of the various parts? Are you able to mill off any extra material if needed? Does the extra compression fit into your build in a way that helps or would you need race fuel?
FWIW my interchange manual shows the block, heads, connecting rods all interchange 57-58; pistons are different. Many replacement pistons are a compromise anyway...all low to medium compression.
Hmm to simplify it, an ebay seller sells both piston types, one specified for the special (low comp) one specified for the high comp (basically all the engines for every other 58 buick. I want to know if I can use the high comp pistons in my special engine. It has nothing to do with what machining capabilities I have, all I want to know is if I got the high comp pistons, can I just put them in and bolt it all up. Bore work ect I will work out when I clean it properly
From my perspective it does have to do with your willingness to solve basic fitment problems if you are unable to find out info about the parts you are considering. Whether you can do it in house or send it out matters because IIRC, you are a very long way from an easy parts return. You have the capability to find out the dimensions of the parts you are considering, be it Google or contacting the Ebay seller and having them open a box or look in their catalog. They should have no issue doing this as they directly benefit financially. I'd be concerned about the possibility of low cost stock replacement parts not measuring up to the specs claimed, it is very common. Are they dealing with NOS OEM parts or the inexpensive UEM/Egge type pistons? Are these used? For all the reasons above, I wouldn't even consider what I assume those parts to be an option. It's even more important to consider the potential compression increase as to how it affects your plan to run this engine. It's more imperative to have that in mind than the original post topics question of fitment. Apologies for completely rearranging your question.
I have rebuilt an engine using "falcon Global" engine kits before, without a problem. Yes, I am in Australia, so parts availability and returns are a big problem, but the question is quite simple, no need for re arrangement or anything else. Simply can I use pistons for a super 364 in my special 364? I am not asking about oversizes or anything else, just if I had a brand new special 364, could I take out the pistons in it and swap in super pistons? if not, why not I do not have a super piston to measure, if I did, I wouldn't need to ask, I asked the seller if they would interchange and they couldn't tell me Just need a simple "yes they fit" or "no they don't, they will hit the head" type answer Cheers Mick
they show two for sale a 2.344 compression height and a 2.406 compression height. so must be a 62 thousand taller dome. mock one up with some clay 62 thou should not be a problem. are you going use a stock thin steel head gasket or a thicker one ? the rods must be all 6.10 length.
I still fully understand your question. You have the ability to research and answer it, at least at face value. For your information and others reading, I've addressed concerns I believe are more important to the big picture of a build like this. Engines do not usually assemble to stack up exactly as the advertised dimensions suggest they will. The measurements I refer to are the compression heights of various pistons that have direct relevance to the query. They do not often match up to the printed dimensions for the type of pistons (usually sold in the Falcon kits). If a seller isn't willing or able to help you find your answer, it reinforces my thoughts on doing business with that seller.
Thanks f85, you fully understand the question, yet still choose to ignore the fact that I have asked simply if the pistons interchange. I am researching by asking if anyone knows if it can and has been done. I don't care what you think your concerns are with my build, I have not stated my build yet as I havnt really started or planned it yet I gathered from that rebuild saga thread that you are an engineer or a machinist or something, I am not and I am not that picky I am assuming you have not done this as a simple yes they fit or no they don't would be the answer I am after, but yet to receive I have not seen falcons shop, but I assume they are simply a parts seller, not a machine shop. I don't expect them to know unless they have a spec sheet, which it seems they dont Thanks for your help
Thanks GSGTX I am not sure if the extra is in the dome or in pin height. I assume the dome as well Its a little awkward to do as you suggest at the moment, but looks like it is my only option other than buying a s/h high comp piston and trying it I will most likely use the composite gasket that comes in the rebuild kit, although I do still have the head shims that came off the engine
if your going use the thicker head gaskets then go with the high compression pistons. you will only move the 62 thousand taller piston up about 35 thousands from stock with the thick head gasket. stock steel = 15 thousand. thick gasket = 43 thousands. measure the flat edge of the piston to the top of block deck and see how far it is in the hole first.
They don't need a spec sheet. They can simply open the boxes at your request and easily measure. There's more walking time than measuring time. I see no reason for them NOT to do this, as you are so far away. I literally have no concerns for your build and it doesn't matter what my experiences are, or if I recall them accurately enough to give you the answer as you ask it. I'm giving you the information you need to have in mind to solve your question without the answer as you ask it, as well as the next round of questions you will encounter. You are probably not ready to order these if you have no other concerns outside your singular question. I typically take interest in threads where people are very close to answering their own questions and defer from 'information booth' type responses or have a technical misunderstanding. I appreciate you recognizing that I haven't responded as you have asked...it's more for anyone else that comes across this then. It's wonderful to see these cool machines still being driven. Have a nice day.
Nobody will have an absolute answer unless they have used those exact parts from that exact manufacturer and assuming they have not varied during production (which they can) or that they are actually different (which they might not be) and assuming that your particular engine has never been machined and is exactly in spec to begin with. These types of parts from the particular manufacturer that Falcon usually sells from is well known for their pistons NOT measuring up as spec sheets and blueprint dimensions. That's why it's important to measure everything up and have a solid plan before you order. There's already one enthusiastic fellow here that ordered his parts from overseas before determining is his block would even clean up and is feeling compelled to use them regardless of consequence. Hopefully everything works out OK for him.
Thanks again for your interest again To ease your mind a little, I have rebuilt a number of engines over the years and have always gone about it basically the same, which is Strip and clean (the 364 is stripped and partially cleaned I havnt taken any core plugs out yet) Send off for hot tanking and crack testing and consultation with the machinist on oversize if required THEN order parts required Once the parts arrive, new pistons ect (depending on engine type) go to machinist so the block can be machined to size and cam bearings ect fitted Then once home, I re clean the block (I don't trust anyone when it comes to the final clean) Then re assembly ect that I do at home. I am not ready to build the engine yet, in fact quite a way from it, but I am itching to do it. The reason for the question is plainly a part of planning the build. I have no intention of building the engine as a stock engine, but the build type (mild or wild) will depend on what the outcome of this question is as well as the rest of the cars build in fact. Using the exact parts from any supplier is irrelevant to my question. Buick built 2 versions of the same engine, 1 with higher comp pistons than the other. My question is a simple one that someone would most likely have tried before and would have either been successful or not. The question is aimed at someone that has tried and what their results were. Anything can be machined to fit, but I find no reason to buy the high comp pistons if I have to machine them down to fit, where the low comp (std type for my engine) basically go straight in, on the other side is I also do not see a reason to use the low comp pistons and have lower HP results if by simply using over the counter high comp pistons in exactly the same engine recipe gives me another 20 or so HP. Telriv (Tom) I will most likely be in contact with you in the future for some stuff, but as for specially made pistons, I am not planning that pricey an engine build. But in saying that, the nail looks like a perfect candidate for a blower, in which case forged pistons would be on the parts list, just hesitant to cut up a bonnet (hood) on the 58 as over here in nanny state, your not allowed to drive cars on the road with stuff poking out the bonnet. Blower or not is a decision that will be made later, but my original question has relevance to that decision. And I do know that if I go blown, it then becomes a pricey rebuild
