Discussion in 'GSE Street Eliminator Series' started by Jeff Hart, Dec 1, 2002.
The 2003 GSE/GSP rules are complete and will be posted in the next day or two.
Glad to hear the cubic inch rule was dropped for 2003. Cant wait to see you all in BG.:beer
:shock: :jd: :laugh:
What class are you talking about Jim? Just wondering.Thanks.
I am confused myself
I would like to know also. If you are talking about gse The rule still stand my friend Jeff and just finished them last week and it still was in there when I read it
Who? What? :laugh:
Just pullin you boys' chains! I was wondering how long it would take to get a responce.:eek2:
Keep up the good work.
Oh, are there any changes for GSP?
I hear GSP may be cancelled, due to low or inconsistent turnout?o No:
Jim, I apologize for semi-recent events, I owe you a phone call. Anyway, as far as GSP goes I haven't heard the class is to be cancelled; however I am aware of the "car count" rule. I was hoping to get some correspondence on this class over the past few months but haven't gotten much. Hopefully we can generate some interest and keep this class going.
Try dropping the OVERKILL weight!:blast: Its is Pro street right? Not completely street. I have glass all around, all the windows work, steel rear bumper, fiberglass front bumper, glass hood, no front fenderwells, the interier is complete minus the rear seat and two race buckets, the rest of the car is steel, working lights and turn signals, full cage, plus a 25 lb. Nitrous bottle and I wiegh in at 3300 lbs. with me in it. :Brow:
Guys spend all this money on high dollar motors to go fast and then stick them in 3600lb+ TANKS. WOW thats just great. :gt: :error: Its not like they see regular street duty. Plus when your not at the nationals and some guy drives around you at the track in a 2800-3000 lb street appearing nova or camaro with half the motor, you better be glad your driving a Buick and they don't expect you to beat them because they'd die laughing if you told them how much you put in a motor to only go "that " fast. Will somebody please explain the logic here? o No: I figure the poor turnout would give someone the point.
Oh yea, if there's going to be power adders, why not any power adder? why put on limitations? Are you scared? :moonu: Let the racers decide what works and doesn't.
I think its time to go FAST! Like everyone else! Let pull up the ancher on GO!:grin:
Hi Rick, Thanks for the rather "colorful" suggestions. I assume with the dropping of the weight we would see you in the class? :grin:
Unfortunately assumptions like this aren't as obvious as they first appear, or I assume the rules would have been modified a long time ago. Being our second year running the classes (The 2002 year we modified a couple of GSE rules but otherwise inherited 2001 rules) we sent out or personally handed out to 14 potential or current GSE people, a "Rules Change" form. This was just for suggestions to modify/change rules to get the car count up. We received 1 back and it was from a contender who only runs in BG and it was handed to us in BG.. The reason GSE is pushed and changed as it is because Bobb Makley and I actually run the class. It is extremely hard to just start changing rules around with out knowing what the overall effect will be for the majority. We are looking for someone to help with the GSP class.
We try as much as we can to let the racers decide, but it is real hard to, when we don't hear from them in a particular class. Now it is after the fact of course and this is usually when we do get all of the suggestions.
First of all, great job. I made my first nat's in 00. Being that I'm in the military it is very hard to make the nat's uncle sam always has other plans. This year is no different! When I think of SE I think of a car that has working lights, doors, window(glass), complete int. Something along the lines of the NMCA's limited street. Now it is my understanding that the SE is running series so changes are very hard to make and it most likely best to leave it the way it is.
As far as PRO Street goes, that should be our best showing of the BB buick world, as far as quickest cars go. Give out a min weight, stock front frames, tubes or what ever the people say. I know how hard it is to get "the people" to agree. Maybe with the BPG we could get a true Pro Street door slammer class going, whether it is limited to a GS or any buick bodied v8 powered car.
Now I am bias, because of my setup. I'm in the middle of building a dedicated nitrous motor, why? Because I want to build a true BAD BUTT GS. I will have no place to run except against yates, Mitchel, Landy motors. I knew this going it to the build up, but it is still a way to cool going out there and giving it a show.
There are a lot of guys with super 16 cars that could sure use the power of one SE/GSP engine. This is not meant as a kick in the teeth, we have the power, but we are stuck in yesterday.
The numbers will grow, especially with the new block and all. Just like in America we need to go on a diet!!
If I was king for a day I would even make it 1/8 mile. Save on engine, keeps traps speeds real
My Input on GSP
For what it's worth, here is my input on the GSP rules.
I have taken the liberty to cut and paste them here, and rules revisions I would like to see are in red.
2003 GS Pro Street-GSP
Cars must weigh 3600 pounds minimum with driver. Drop minimum weight to 3200 lbs
Car must be a GS in appearance.
No limit on gear ratio. Any rear housing is legal.
Any torque converter is legal. Trans brakes are legal.
Any size exhaust system is legal it must extend beyond the driver seat toward the rearend and must have a commercially available muffler with the exhaust directed away from the car by means of a turnout.
Two fiberglass front seats OK, rear seat is optional if it interferes with a roll cage, however, the exposed area must be carpeted or covered with upholstery. Aluminum rear floor kits/trunk kits/wheel tubs ok
Fiberglass hoods and bumpers are legal. Rear facing scoops are limited to 5" in height. Forward facing scoops limited to the Stage 2 type.
Cars must be fully painted. No lettering or racecar paint schemes. Lose this rule... who are we kidding, these are not street cars... I would allow paint schemes, but no lettering
Any cubic inch allowed.
No clutchless transmissions such as Lencos, Jerico, etc..
Fuel cells are legal.
Gasoline is the only fuel allowed. No nitrous Allow any power adder
There is a 12" maximum width on slicks (by sidewall designation). No wheel tubs. No limit on height. Any front tire/wheel combo legal. Frame nothing and/or factory wheelhouse movement for tire clearance allowed, but limited to 2".
Allow back-halfed cars, with no tire restrictions, as long as all other class rules are met. My reasoning being this.. With the limited number of cars to participate in any Buick event, being able to draw S-16 guys to also run this class, is the only real hope of boosting participation. Techinically speaking, if we factor out traction, the smaller tire cars actually have an advantage, as their setup sucks off less HP. Run the eliminations on seperate days, and then allow racers who meet the criteria for both classes to run both. Now you have two races for these guys to come and race in. All it takes is a relaxation of the weight, power adder, and tire rules.
Cars may run fuel Injection or multiple carbs if it fits under the hood. Any cylinder head designed for a Buick is legal. No blowers, turbos or superchargers.
Cars will run heads-up off a ladder with fastest cars racing slowest off a pro tree.
If these rules were implimented, I can think of half a dozen guys off the top of my head, who are no more than a little shot of N20 away from being very competative.
You still are keeping the lightweight tube frame cars in S-16, where they belong, but there are a bunch of cars in that class, that could slide right into GSP, with these rules.
Something to think about... to boost participation, rules changes, to more aptly fit the cars already out there, must be made, or it will continue to be the same 4/5 cars running this class. Not many folks are going to build a $50 K + race car, with this rule structure. Although I commend those racers who have done just that, built a car like this, to race once a year.
But realistically, there are a number of guys I can think of, who could just slip in a little liquid HP, and have fun on Friday night running a heads up race. The 4 9 second- iron headed stage 1 cars come to mind right away..
I like it, I would like to see fwd facing scopes in also, this would open it up even more to the S16 guys, me and the tunnel ram. If these rules ever get modified very close to something like Jim posted (IE something I can run in as it stands right now I would only have to change out my glass doors and lexan) I will tose in $500 into the pot for the winnings. This goes for this year even though I will not beable to attend. Let's get this thing roll'n. I bet I could talk Rick into putt'n up a buck or two even though he will most likely not be able to attend either.
I like It, Where do we race!!!
What would be the consideration of going 1/8 mi with just this class? Its not that I can't run the quarter, its just a gear change away. BUT that last of 1/8 mi has sure torn up alot of high dollar Buick motors no matter whos built them or how well there set up. It the nature of THE BEAST. Not that 1/8 mi would cure motors from coming apart but they sure would last alot longer to enjoy them and compete. I feel GSE car are already pushing that "envelope". To go faster and keep them together for more racing it might be best to shorten things up. ALot of fast heads -up racing run 1/8mi so it nothing new.
1/8 mi anyone???? :spank: Just try to stur that pot a bit.:Brow:
THats Right!!!!, I'll even toss in a couple hundred for the pot. But have to beat me to the light to get it.:Brow:
although i may never be able to afford to race in this class with yall, i like some of the ideas that are being brought up here. the ideas that JW brought up have the makings of a VERY exciting class to watch as a spectator. these rules would give a guy alot of ideas about building a car himself,givin the ability and $$$. it's not like we all have a shop or $$$ to lay out a full tube frame car. BUT alot of people have the ability to weld in a back half kit from comp or notch a rear for a couple more inchs . and by adding NOS to the mix would open alot of doors to people also.
i will have to look again but alot of the ideas that are getting passed around here are starting to sound alot like the southern boys class they call "The Big Dogs". i have seen them run in Tx. and they are the "whole show". weight breaks for SBna, SB w/nos, BBna, BB w/nos. i "think" it's like 3000,3200,3400,3600 resp. workin lights and mufflers, street tires,no wheelie bars and some resemblence of an interior.run on the 1/8th, heads up , first one there wins. i am not saying we need all the rules they have, but it may be somewhere to start looking. i have watched them run a half dozen times down south. while i was there i saw several alcohol dragsters/FC's run and the crowd was like "well ok ???" , BUT..... when the "Big Dogs" run, the stands are packed and the fences are ligned with folks, cause you NEVER know what gonna happen,even in just the 1/8th. those guys leave HARD !!! just sitting here thinkin about it i cant recall 1 car leavin without AT LEAST 2' of air under the front,and not having any idea which way it was gonna go when it hit. VERY FUN to watch !!!!!
from the ideas and replies here, i dont think GSP is getting laid away............maybe it just needs a vacation to "regroup". I KNOW this class, under a set of rules like Jim W. has mentioned above, would have me either tryin' to run , or runnin' to the fence to watch(thus fueling the desire a little more).
Just my 2 bits worth........................
:beer :beer Just wanted to say I think JW laid a great foundation for a new or modified GSP class. I think we as the people need to show a desire (if there is one) to try and make this happen. Want we need is people to step up and say yes I want try that out. Buickdav is totally right about the rush even from the fan point of view. This could be a great race for the BPG first event.
I won't even suggest turbos and blowers (yet!) and I know the class is GSP, but what about opening it up to any body style as long as it's a Buick? I like seeing the different body styles.
I've brought this and other suggestions to Bobb's attention at least 3 times now.
NMCA Real Street w/ nostalgia weight breaks,Buick motor weight breaks,etc. is allowed to weigh about 3250+/-
"Pro" Pro Stock w/ weight breaks listed above is allowed to weigh 3325.
My point (AGAIN) is that when I built my car it was geared toward those org.'s.The fact that it was close to GSP rules was a surprise to me so I ran the class.
With the idea of the min. weight allowed in the other org.'s I've been subtly shedding weight,the car will weigh less than 3400 next year and still look the same.IE rear seat,stock shifter,steel bumpers front and rear,etc.
Why not have this class parrallel the RS & PS classes so that we can build a car to race H/U more than once a year.
I am no longer willing to bust my _ _ _ to make my car faster only to have to add 300lbs to race this class.
The Turner/Mann car is for sale,which leaves myself,Cagle,and Warren Heaps/Dick Johnston.
I think with only 3 possible participants this is the perfect time for an overhaul/facelift for the rules.
Big tires?Why not?Turner and Heaps each had 13" wide tires last year.I'll stick w/ my ten-fives and 60' right w/ them....
Power adders?Why not?
Now that the new block is in the works.
If majority decides.Would reduce breakage.
Why not?Ther's already a class for the heavy cars.(GSE)
And again.....reduced breakage.
Why when you have a rear bumper:stmad:
I'd like to thank the people that care enough to make these posts w/ suggestions,I've been saying the same stuff for the last 2 years.At least now I know my suggestions were good...It's just that my voice,apparently was not loud enough.