Discussion in 'Ebay Parts and Cars' started by mrolds69, Feb 2, 2018.
2k is nuts, but.....
i would figure out how to get it if i owned the car...i would take out a loan..its well worth it...
now, is it right for the seller to hostage them, no...would i or anyone here do that..no..
the owner of the car needs to get this stuff..get past the money, and realize the added value to the car..
across the rest of the web,, its kind of been agreed to, that that kind of documentaion adds 10-15% of the value of the car to it..
is that stuff really worth 2 grand when the car can be 100 % proven to be a GSX ? I wouldn't drop half that amount on it.. heck not even $500 but then again i'm a cheapskate
I would figure out how to post your car in an ad there (obviously with a price no one would buy it for) so it shows up in the same search engine with those documents so any scuzbuckets wanting to cash in on a faking the car thinking it must have been crushed or is long gone knows it IS ALIVE AND WELL!!!! AND SO THEY ALSO KNOW THE BUICK COMMUNITY NOW HAS THAT VIN RECORDED AND ON ALERT FOR A FAKE!!!
Let me preface this by saying I have no dog in this fight. Don't know the seller from Adam.
Im sure most of you guys will concede that having the original POP and/ or paperwork adds value to a car. All things being equal, the car with the original paperwork is worth more. To say that it doesn't matter and it doesn't add money to the price tag is simply not true. How much more is the question. I think its commensurate with the car. My beater has the POP and every stich of paper. Does that make it worth 10 grand more? Absolutely not. Probably adds $25 to the selling price. But on a high dollar, it can add thousands to the right buyer. So I can understand the guy wanting something for the stuff. How much is another question. I think calling the guy a DB is a bit much. Not everyone is altruistic about this stuff.
Just to play the devil's advocate here, lets say you have the original paperwork for a 70 LS6 Chevelle and the owner of the car wanted it. You "did the right thing" and gave it to him. The guy sells the car down the road at Barret Jackson . But instead of selling the car for 100k, he sold it for a lot more because it had the original paperwork. How would you feel about the owner making a ton of money off you?
Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and pay up. Despite popular opinion, Ive had to do it on occasion for things I really wanted. I always say, "in five years, it'll sound cheap". The market will always catch up and surpass you. In the long run, the GSX will increase in value greater than the 2 grand.
That's my 2 cents...
I agree with some of what you are saying Jason, my main concern is his knowing the car is still alive and well but he is selling documents that are sometimes critical in certifying a cars authenticity and they are up for sale to others that might not have the best intentions. I am sure if the guy is reasonable he will eventually come around. Hope hope
No arguement that it does add value to the car and will ease the eventual transfer to another buyer.
I hear what your saying Fritzy, but the bottom line is its his property and he can do what he wants with it. He could of ripped it up and threw it out too. If he wants 2 grand for it, that's his right. No one says any of us have to agree with it. Honestly, I can see both sides of the issue here.
yeh i hear you my knee jerk response was being ill but as you say it is technically his and if it is sold to another buyer we will as had been said be on the look out for a fake
doesnt matter what any of us think is right or wrong..
seller has product that pertains to the lineage and history of a rare desirable car..its his...he sets the price..
pay to play...its the way it is...
i know of a car..a 69 pace car camaro 396 auto loaded..with every piece of paper since new..all the factory stuff, including window sticker, POP all the order forms from the meeting deciding options with doodles on them etc..everything..i was helping a friend buy the car..he knew the car since day 1 there was no doubt what it was etc..his dad even worked on it in the 70s and 80s at a Sears store he worked at...and this came up.."whats the documentation worth"
when i asked some really high end collectors, every single one said, that file adds $10k to the car..it makes it legit,...
and the car appraised higher too..the appraiser loved the paper work, understood what it meant...and he gave a higher appraisal with the paper work
I agree with Jason...take the "car guy" out, that most of us are, and consider the collectible value..in the world of crooks and thief's...any documentation ads value...its the world we live in..people with money that want a super rare car want dead sound documentation
i will say it again..i think 2k is nuts...but i promise if i owned that car..that sh!t would be on its way to my house already..and i'm a cheap skate like you cant believe..but...i dont own a GSX and knowing that stuff is out there,,,i would beg borrow and steal to get it.
Okay a little calmer now. How about this?
Yes it is his property. If he has no intentions on selling it for $2000 to someone with bad intentions and after mentioining he attempted to find the owner.
How about NOW saying that since the ad was posted he HAS spoken to the current owner of the car matching this VIN , the car is alive and well but he is unsure if the current owner is interested in the documents or something to that effect?
.1 Have original GSX documentation
.2Car is still in existence.
It sounds like George (Torqued) originally bought the car from the eBay seller. I would THINK once George got a hold of him, he'd be willing to get the documents back to him for a reasonable price. Especially considering that the guy claims to have tried to get a hold of him and get the paperwork to him for what sounds like free originally.... But it is his stuff and if he wants to clean bugs off a windshield for quarters with it while videoing it and post it on Youtube, I guess that's his right, too.....
i just remembered i forgot my blood pressure meds today
Since this is a 1970 GSX it can be documented through Wayne Roberts so documentation to prove its real is available. Some other brands like an LS6 Chevelle may not have the availability of micro film to prove its authenticity so in that case the original paperwork would be very valuable.
If this were for a 71 GSX it would be more valuable in my opinion since the microfilm is not available.
Holding it hostage from the current owner is wrong but to each his own. If I were going to buy a 70 GSX and the person offered me it for 2K less without the POP I would jump at that and drive the car away without it just because I know it can be authenticated with microfilm. Would I want the POP, heck yea, would I pay that much extra for it, no way. It would be different if it were an LS6 Chevelle and there was no other way to document it.
Please remember that the Seller, in his own words stated:
- "Somehow I ended up with the original owners manual and data plate ...";
- "... I just found in a stack of old papers";
- " I tried to find the current owner, but no luck."
So, if the Seller is taken at his word, then there was clear intent to at least try to reunite the GSX and current Owner with thee found paperwork. Now, would that have been a gift (free) to the current GSX Owner? I don't know. But, the sale of this car (from the eBay Seller) appears to have been a long, long time ago (1983). A lot has changed with GSX values since then and I bet that Seller regrets selling that car (- IMO). I suspect these last two points are driving the Seller's position.
I agree with Jason as to the need to recognize the dichotomy of - what so many of us have expressed - an altruistic position (I'll call it the 'greater good') of helping preserve an important piece of Buick heritage by reuniting the "born with" documentation versus the fact that, in the end, that documentation is private property and the Seller is probably trying to "cash in" on the GSX's current value. In the end, it's still private property.
I do recognize the strong undercurrent of views on this subject regarding the altruistic ideal position and that the documentation should be reunited with the car - and that says A LOT about so many in the Buick Community here - it really does. And Pat's sacrifice of storing a '71 GSX's engine block with the mere scintilla of hope one day it could get back to the original GSX is frankly extraordinary.
I wish there was someone who knew the Seller and was able to maybe broker a deal or something or "lean" on ..... ok - persuade, the Seller to compromise. One dilemma for the Seller is that it sounds like the current GSX Owner has the other documentation (probably the build sheet) and then the Wayne Rogers verification is available - so technically, the eBay documentation would be nice to have reunited, but there is nothing in those eBay ad documents which is needed to prove the GSX in question is real - it already has the needed other documentation. In all seriousness, does the Seller think some prospective Buyer is going to make a shadow box and hang all the documentation on the wall?
The irony of this whole thing Ken, and you and others have touched on it, is the fact that the paper is only worth something to the owner of the car. Its virtually worthless to any other person. That's what makes this so frustrating.
It seems it was misplaced, I believe that. Maybe the guy is in dire straits and really needs the $$$. It is kind of hard to believe that he wants to stand on the 2K, though.
Especially since it's essentially worthless unless paired with the car.
i don't think anyone can fake a GSX based off of a POP. there is more to it than that and the VIN is already taken. it's harmless that way.
2k sucks but it's likely worth the investment. I'd keep bartering with the guy.
It sucks but hold on . Keep watching Ebay. Show that you are not really interested. Bet that in a few months he would like 500 but will let it go for 200. Like Brett said it is only worth the moola to the owner of the car.
Keep in mind people the Ebay listing also states MAKE OFFER. It seems rather apparent that the seller is fishing and that's a starting point. Water will find it's own level on this one...