My knowledge on Rivs & Nailheads is a bit limited. Are you saying that the 1964 year model Riviera was the first and only year they used the ST300 in the Rivieras, or are you saying that they didn't bother to change the shift pattern to show the 2 and 1 instead of just the L, but all used the ST400? Seems logical that the ST300 and ST400 were both used, depending on options chosen, and Buick Motors wouldn't be so sloppy as to use the P-R-N-D-L shift pattern used the previous year and earlier, while equipped with nothing but the ST400--or did they?
I am not the expert on Nailheads, but Tommy certainly is. I believe the ST300 was used behind the Nailheads initially, maybe in 64, but then the ST400 in later years. The 1964 ST400 had a one year only valve body I believe.
I stated ALL Rivs. & Full size cars used a NON switch-pitch TH400. I stated that the 1st. yr for a switch-pitch was '64 with the ST300. Failed to mention that the 300 was used in A-Body cars ONLY. '64 was a 1 yr. ONLY case & valve body & CANNOT be converted to switch-pitch. All the other yrs. '65- whenever can be converted to switch-pitch. The '64 400 only had 2 Detents for forward gears. D & L. Put in L & do whatever RPM"s in 1st. gear. Then shift to drive for 2nd. gear then back to L & hold until whatever RPM's then shift to D. Understand now??? Tom T.
It appears that the transition year of 1964 for the new ST400 was a unique snowflake. Probably getting everyone used to the idea that there was another gear to be dealt with when everyone was used to the Dynaflow, not to mention the indicator showing only an "L" instead of "2-1" being easier to transition from the previous year(s). Must have felt a bit strange only being able to control 1st gear manually, while 2nd and 3rd were purely automated. Very interesting to see how things evolved over the years. Thanks to everyone involved in answering my questions, no matter how annoying my questions might be. Maybe others here were curious as well (or didn't think about it).
You can pretty much drive the newer than '64 TH400s like that as well(just have to skip over 2nd gear) because if they're left in first gear they will shift into 2nd automatically while the gear selector is still in 1st gear. Or shift into drive then back to 1st and the trans will only down shift into 2nd if the mph are beyond the 1st gear RPM range if it has to downshift. Derek
My experience with the ST and TH 400s were that if it is held in 1st, only 1st will be accessible. It never shifted up if left in "1". However, if manually downshifting to 2nd from D, it would shift into 2nd at any speed and delay going into 1st if you pulled it down into 1st from higher speeds, until RPMs lowered enough. Keeping it in 2nd would permit down and up shifts from 1-2 and 2-1 though (meaning, keeping it in 2nd didn't lock it into 2nd gear at any speed, unlike keeping it in 1st which locked it in 1st gear, unless pulling it down to there from high speeds). The 400 is a very good transmission. I enjoyed mine, though it's not my favorite. Hard to say I have a 'favorite', since they all have pros and cons.
I MUST clarify the full size cars, mainly LeSabre in '64 & '65 as they were only available with the 300 engine & the ST300 trans. Another clarification would be the LeSabre wagons. They could only be had with a 401 or 425 ( and even the 2x4 Super Wildcat) as it was a MUCH larger vehicle than a sedan or hardtop or convertible LeSabre. I'm not too sure about '66, but I would guess the LeSabre had a 340 available or as standard equipment & I don't know about the wagons. I was hoping that I didn't have to spend hrs. typing a reply to why, one of the reasons, they switched to the D-2-1 was because of engine replacements under warranty for both Buick & Cadillac. The teens would take the parents car out on Fri. or Sat. & the dealers had to deal with engine replacements on Mon. morning because the teens blew up engines. Like I mentioned put the selector in L & you could hold 1st. gear until whatever RPM's , if the engine would do it, past 6000 RPM's or more. Then shift to D & back to L & hold 2nd. for as long as you dared. Also you could not control 2nd. gear. If you put the selector in L when the car reached about 20MPH the trans. would downshift to 1st. In '65 they remedied that problem. IF you left it in 1 the trans. would automatically shift to 2nd. at 5500 RPM's. This continued, I believe, until the end of production for the TH400's. Did I make myself clearer this time??? & I left out some details in the previous posts. Tom T.
That's good to know Tom thanks, I think I want one of them there '64 ST400 transmissions! I always found it annoying not being able to hold 1st gear when the trans was actually in 1st gear! :Brow: Them dam baby boomers back then ruined a lot of cool stuff like that back in the day! :rant: Derek
I would like to comment on the PRNDL on the 64. My mother bought a 64 Wildcat with the 465 Super Wildcat engine. Two fours under a magnificent twin snorkle chrome breather. The car came from the factory with a Super Turbine 400. It had 3 speeds but only showed PRNDL on the column. By the way and just a little side note. You know how when we were kids we all either knew someone or had an uncle that had one or something that went somewhat like that.....I was only 10 when my mother bought that Wildcat so I was right at that age when we all "knew someone that had one" and I would tell the kids at school that my mother had a Buick with dual quads....everyone would say no way, I call bull****...and I would say bet me....they would get off the bus at my stop and I would open the garage door and pop the hood and WALA!!!. Pay up!!! My dad came out one day and yelled at me "quit taking those kids lunch money"!!!!! That was the end of my easy money LOL
Interesting valve body behavior on that '64 ST400. Never had one of those, but my experience with the later ones and the TH400s could be held in 1st and wouldn't upshift to 2nd unless you pulled it out of L. This was the source of many 'roombaas' when revving it up in low and then instead of manually shifting the selector up into 2, letting off the accelerator and have it rev back down while it was still in 1st. I've never had one that would automatically upshift into 2nd while still held in 1`or L...and I have floated many a valves over revving my 430's and 455's while manually shifting. Not sure which TH400's everyone else has been using, but the only way I can imagine it shifting into 2nd when held in 1 would be if the linkage was maladjusted and engine torque bumped it into the next detent without the operator's noticing. ((( One of the fun things I used to do was drive along the road with the engine revv'ed up while the selector was in 1 (it would not upshift even cruising this way, no matter how high the RPMs), then open up the Qjet and let'er scream until shifting manually into 2. My '69 Electra would bark the tires when doing this, even as heavy as it was. Many people wouldn't believe me when I told them that land yacht could 'catch a 2nd' until they got in the car with me and I showed them. Fun times. ))) You had to upshift manually from 2 into D to get it into 3rd. If left in 2, it would downshift into 1st if going slow enough, and start off in 1st and upshift into 2nd automatically, however. Seemed to me that L or 1 locked it into 1st, while 2 was more like D without access to the final 3rd gear, while D gave automatic access to all gears, as expected. The exception to this was if you pulled it down into 1 from D while going fast, at which time it would only downshift into 2nd gear and wouldn't go into 1st gear until the car reached a slower speed, at which case it was 'locked' into 1st until manually shifting out of the 1 selector--this has been my experience with all the 400's I have ever owned, having never owned or operated a 1964 year model ST400. Pretty straightfoward stuff. That '64 trans behaves almost like a manual/automatic valve body hybrid. I can see why they changed the valve body on it. lol
Just to clarify, Tom, you do not have to spend any time whatsoever typing out any responses if you do not wish to. I had a simple query regarding a previous post you made because some information was left out. You have since satisfied this query, and no further input is necessary unless you feel the desire to do so. I would not wish to tax your patience answering valve body behavioral inquiries, though what you have already said thus far is more than enough information to answer 'why they did it'. Makes sense to me! Thanks again.
I stumbled upon this thread just now and thought Id jump in because Ive been gathering parts for a future Dynaflow swap in my 63 Riviera. Yes lots of Rivieras being parted-out. Sad, really. Finally located a 13 Switch-Pitch Torque Converter last summer. It would be a rebuild-able core as is the 65 ST-400 I have. I think a 12 from an ST-300 would work well as my nailhead is the 401 and the Riviera is still lighter than a full size although a lot heavier than an A-body. Lots of nailhead ST-400s were rebuilt with standard 400 HW. For a high output BB V8, that would be the way to go, not a switch pitch. Statements from Tom and Larry above are accurate. The 64 ST-400 is a 1 year only. The Shifter from a 64 matches that years valve body. Although Ive seen people modify the Dynaflows detent casting to work with PRND21, some with a cable. I think the same has to be done to a 64 Riviera shifter. Might as well look for a 65 Riviera shifter. Also, swapping in a 65 66 nailhead ST-400 will require that hard-to-find slip-yoke. I swapped the tail shaft housing from an 82 400 truck transmission to discover that the mount has metric bolts! Get the premium slip yoke as Im told there are several grades. For the driveshaft, the 64 has CV joints and companion flange on the differential pinion. I will probably haul my Riviera to a reputable driveline shop and have them help me decide when I get to that point. Build a hybrid driveshaft? Any suggestions? As for the Dynaflow, we know it can handle 465 ft lbs of torque, not too shabby. Its 5 element TORQUE CONVERTER (twin turbine) IS THE TRANSMISSION. The rough pig behind it is just a leaky range selector with an emergency low. The twin turbines efficiency is atrocious because its elements are not close coupled. What Ive read, Buick acknowledged criticism on performance by coupling a bigger engine in front of it. Shifter ideas anyone?
How about this for an idea......forget about the TH400 and go 4L60E! I put one I my '64 Electra and it fits like stock... for the most part. I had to alter the driveshaft and change the yoke and I did a small change to the cross member. I used a bell housing from http://nailheadbuick.com/transadaptors. This bell housing works very well. I used stand alone controller from EZ-TCU from Summit https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/tci-302820/overview/ and a tail housing from http://www.shiftworks.com/tailhousing.htm so that I can use my factory speedometer. I now have a lower first gear and overdrive. I bought the transmission from monster transmission. Highly recommended.
i have a 1963 401 with dynaflow. two questions.....can anyone tell me what the gearing is for the trans selector when it is pushed all the way forward towards the engine? second question is can anyone tell me about a floor mount shifter? this is in a custom boxed ladder chassis that a highly modified/bastardized 1958 Morgan body sits on. cutting and welding is not an issue here.
I have attached a picture of the current status of the engine/frame as of this morning.....though the motor mounts and trans mount have been fabricated and painted awaiting installation. I currently do not have any shifting mechanism in place......I would however very much like to have a floor mounted shifter.....more on that later. The selector arm that i am referring to is on the drivers right hand side at the rear end of the transmission near the end of the tail shaft. It moves in a "pendulum" motion, meaning that as you push the lever forward or backward there is an arc to it. When the arm is moved all the way forward, which i mean that the front of the arm is now pointing towards the front of the car.....I believe that this is P....by moving the arm "backwards"/pointing to the rear of the car and moving through all 5 positions....P/N/D/L/R it would be in reverse. i trust that this more accurately describes what is occurring and that the picture adds clarity. As the picture illustrates there is no shifter in place at the moment....I want to use a floor mount shifter. I have reached out to a number of companies and the responses i have received vary from Hell NO to out right simply laughing! I can and do find the humor in this...but this does nothing for me to achieve my ultimate goal of having a freaking floor mounted shifter! If anyone can shed any light as to what has been done, can be done, might be done within financial reasoning.....PLEASE let me know.
i appreciate the google search.....as i have found on many of my searches and on the ones you provided......nowhere does it state that they are compatible with a Buick Dynaflow. At the point that i have exhausted all resources to find a Buick floor mount shifter that does fit the Dynaflow....i will then need to look at how to adapt/customize a "generic" shifter to my specific application. If anyone has an information on adapting a general shifter to a Dynaflow....I would more than welcome that information! Thanks.
