What is your actual clearances when installed in the case the correct way..........you cant compare it to the old stack........soak the clutches as you should then try to measure the clearance in the case. There are some different steels and reaction plates that can be purchased to set clearances.......but we need to establish it first. It can't be hard to get a feeler gauge in.......you can use thin washers stacked to get an idea..........you can place then in 3 or 4 places evenly around then clutch pack and keep adding till you can get the snap ring in place. I aim for .050 here, but .040-.060 clearance shouldn't hurt anything with good line pressure........I wouldn't want much under .040. These are bigger diameter that the others so the .010 rule needs to have a little more on this clutch.
Using a feeler gauges inserted between the first thick steel and the clutch disk, looks like the clearance is about 0.073". Maybe a couple of thou more, it's hard to get in there.
A feeler gauge is hard to get in there, it's why I use the washer stack, it's more of go no go than actual measurement this way but depend on your washer selection it can be very close. Were you using g the wave plate on the bottom or not? If so we need to lay it on a table and get an idea of how thick it is at its highest point......it is possable for these to get flattened some and cause extra clearance.
Then that's why there is extra clearance there. How thick are your steels??? If closer to .077 You could get these and use 1 or 2 of these thicker steels to trim the gap https://www.tciauto.com/gm-th400-intermediate-steel-plates-3-100.html
K some kitsch come with the thinner steels used in the 4l80.......so about all you can do if put the wave plate back in to get the clearance down. But I don't think the slightly larger clearance will hurt much or cause a slow shift
So the .073" clearance is OK then? Started on the direct clutch and looks like I need to get a new drum so I can use the 34 element sprag.
That number is higher than the generally targeted area. I really cant see it causing any issues. You can try to put the factory wave plate in and see what you get.........but the cushioning effect of the plate will still slightly slide the shift. You will get a firmer shift feel without the wave plate. So you need to figure out with you would rather have a slightly out of spec clearance and the more firmer feel, or an spec but the slightly softer shift. Either way I feel you will be fine. Yes drums for 34 element sprays must have the smooth inner race not the notched one used on the later units. Ck sells then for like 100, they sell a 6 clutch model too http://www.ckperformance.com/View/BARE-5-FRICTION-DIRECT-CLUTCH-DRUM There are some on evilbay normally around the same price. Sometimes you can get a direct drum from a local tranny shop out of a 4l80e too
Is there anything I could have done in my reassembly to cause that large clearance? I'll get the drum from CK because they also have the spiral lock retaining ring that goes on the drum for the sprag.
That clutch is pretty straight forward.......measure the thick pressure plate, they should be near .440.......if that has wear and is thinner it could effect it.....if the clearance worries you try the wave plate in there it might have enough spring or wave to help drop the clearance I would test fit your other clutches.....that way if you need other pop arts it's only 1 order.....the have different thickness of direct/forward drums if needed
I've been doing some tinkering while I wait for my new direct drum. I tried the washer thing you mentioned. I have some that are 0.079 - 0.080" thick. I put those in and the snap ring still went in. But it looks like that is about it. The pressure plate was a hair above the bottom of the snap ring groove. The plate measures 0.432" btw. I know you said it's probably fine, but it does bug me the clearance is so large. The center support fit in perfectly. The top perfectly lined up with the snap ring groove. The only thing in my mind that could be off is something in the center support apply piston assembly? Switching gears, I notice the factory did not fill all the spring pockets with springs in the various apply piston assemblies. Should I fill in the empty pockets with springs or just leave it like the factory did it?
Have you applied air to center support and moved the piston. This will air check it and cause it to settle into it's own spot. As far as the springs go, they are release springs, the more or stiffer springs in there the faster the piston will release.........but it will also mean it is harder for the piston to apply because it will have to overcome a greater pressure b4 it even start to move. But it also applies with more even force not a soft apply then ramp up the clamping force. If your ordering from ck performance Chris has new springs for about 15 per clutch.
You might see if you can find a good plate that is closer to the stk .440, that would cut .008 out the pack right there other than than and air test the pistong to make sure its settled in the correct spot there isn't much you can do. That pack was designed to have that wave plate in it. Even though that plate is normally only about .070 with the bends it acts thicker in the pack. When its ommitted it induces extra pack clearance
You can use snap rings from Chrysler 727, 518, and 618 front/rear clutch packs to adjust clearances. The Chrysler transmission use selective snap rings to adjust their clutch clearances, they just happen to be perfect fit for the 400. If I remember correct, they start at around .060 and go to .130 in .010 increments. Anything thicker that .110 won’t fit in the snap ring grove in the case. Another advantage is the snap ring goes almost completely around the case, as opposed to the large gap of the factory snap ring. You can also upgrade to the 4L80E intermediate clutch (4clutches as opposed to the factory 3). Use the 4L80 intermediate backing plate, 4 standard frictions, and 4 of the thinner .070 steel plates. Once again, use the Chrysler snap rings to finalize the clearance. Btw, the .090 Chrysler snap ring is the same snap ring included in the TransGo shift kit. Hope this helps
Didnt know that, I know on the forward and direct clutches you might not get much adjustment this way as the reaction plate can only go so low..........so too thick of snap ring wont even fit
The .075 and .090 are pretty common. There is also a .060 steel, I won’t use them unless it’s strictly a race build. I feel those are too thin to radiate the heat of everyday driving. Another option is to machine the piston. If I remember correctly, the limit is about .525 minimum thickness, anything more will cause the first steel to drop into the groove cut into the drum. It’s easy if you have access to a lathe. I have cut them at friends auto repair shop on his brake lathe. I asked him to save a couple junk cutters, the finish isn’t the greatest but it works.
Why machine the pisto . That would only make more clearance. You can get the 4l80e clutches and steels but you need to thin out down to about .375 to be able to fit 4 in
When you say snap rings, which one specifically are you talking about? The one above the center section or the one holding in the clutches?
