Stock 455 valve float?

Discussion in 'Street/strip 400/430/455' started by Buickpwrdolds, May 11, 2019.

  1. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    Hasn't been mentioned yet, but when I went with the refresh, I used the wrong length pushrods and too much preload happened, resulting in the engine not revving over 4500.

    EDIT: If you have or plan to have any sort of cam in your engine, you should put in stage 1 springs. Sort of a no-brainer deal, especially if you plan to race it
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
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  2. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    I would use the stage 1 springs minimum jmo, $90 is a small price to pay for piece of mind if you plan on working your times down
     
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  3. Buickpwrdolds

    Buickpwrdolds Well-Known Member

    You're right, $130 for springs and rocker retainers isn't too much to complain about for the peace of mind. It's not a race car, my s10 is the race car, but I would like to make the occasional pass with this just for fun. They most likely need replaced as a wear item anyways at this point, regardless of the cause of the issue.

    I would like to thank everyone for all the advice and suggestions, you've made my initial experience onboard a good one!

    EDIT: I see that TA Performance sells two different stage 1 valve springs, 1435 is more expensive, rated for less lift, and lists 100 lb seat pressure. 1435A lists 90 lb seat pressure, is cheaper, and is somehow supposed to be good for .575 lift? Which would you guys go with? To me it seems the cheaper one rated for more lift is a no brainer, but I want to be sure I'm not missing something.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
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  4. cruzn57

    cruzn57 cruzn57

    you DO NOT want to go throwing a set of HD springs on a stock cam/motor,
    big springs will help premature cam wear, ( flatten it)
    I'd take one spring off and get it checked , at machine shop,
    then you will know exactly where your at,
    stock springs were - installed 72 +- 5lbs and 177 lbs open
    on a stock (used) cam going over 100lbs installed is asking for trouble,
    Alot of older buick owners DO run push their cars ,just like at the drags,
    with old valve springs,
     
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  5. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    A fresh set of stage one springs isn't going hurt a thing, were not talking about a 300lb spring here, think about how many Lt1 springs have been put in Stock tired GN engines that went on to run for thousands and thousands of miles

    The 575 lift springs is the stage plus springs,..no real need for them just the standard ole 90lbs spring is all I'd do, or even just fresh replacement set if it makes you feel more fuzzy
     
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  6. cruzn57

    cruzn57 cruzn57

    watch the inner dia of the springs, as some will interfere with valve seals,(usually dual spring)
    if you change retainers, check the clearance between the retainer and the valve guide . at full lift, with seal installed.
     
  7. rmstg2

    rmstg2 Gold Level Contributor

    Put the stock distributor back in and see how it acts!

    Bob H.
     
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  8. Buickpwrdolds

    Buickpwrdolds Well-Known Member

    I unfortunately do not have it anymore.
     
  9. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    The Stage 1 springs that hugger is talking about are single springs with a damper. Spring rate is 430 on those, and the typically "throw them on" install without shimming them will end up with the install height in the 90 lbs range... open, you might see 250 lbs on the nose, so no worries there.

    Old cams and lifters develop a charictaristic known as "work hardening" which makes them have a much higher rockwell number than the base material would have.

    New cams and lifters fail, old stuff rarely does.

    Throw the springs on it, it needs them anyway.. if that does not fix it, the next step would be an HEI intensifier kit... Speaking of the HEI conversion.. you did run a brand new 10 gauge wire from the fusebox for that HEI power feed.. correct?

    JW
     
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  10. Buickpwrdolds

    Buickpwrdolds Well-Known Member

    Jim, I think it's 12 ga wire, I don't remember I'll have to check. I've used it before on hei stuff without issues. I'll surprise the missus on payday this week with a new set of springs and nylons.
    Ethan
     
  11. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Ethan,
    Jim was also referring to the fact that the GM HEI needs full battery voltage, and that the stock feed wire is a resistance wire from the firewall forward. The resistance wire drops voltage to maximize point life. You must run a new feed wire or replace the resistance wire so the HEI always sees full battery voltage.
     
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  12. Buickpwrdolds

    Buickpwrdolds Well-Known Member

    Larry,
    The car that the engine is in was equipped with HEI from the factory, on a chevy 305. I just soldered and covered with heat shrink a longer pigtail into the harness to reach the distributor at the front instead of the rear like the sbc.
    Ethan
     
  13. Buickpwrdolds

    Buickpwrdolds Well-Known Member

    It's update time, and as with many things, it's usually not as simple as it seems.
    I removed both valve covers this morning to do a visual inspection, and I found 4 main things that concern me.
    1. The slight lifter noise I've been dealing with is at the number 7 exhaust valve. I have read numerous reports of this being the signature of a failed front cam bearing.
    2. All the rocker arms seem to be favoring one side of their valves, instead of riding on the center. Is this a sign of severely worn rockers/shafts?
    3. I found a piece of rocker arm laying in the head, and included a picture of the culprit.
    4. One rocker retainer is just nonexistent, causing that rocker to ride pretty severely to one side, note the pushrod seemingly against the guide hole in that photo.
    I'm assuming at this point I'm looking at new rockers and shafts at the very least. I can only hope that lifter just has sludge in it or something less than the infamous cam bearing. Suffice to say I was really hoping not to remove this engine again soon.
    -Ethan
    20190515_103000.jpg 20190515_103017.jpg 20190515_103013.jpg 20190515_104131.jpg 20190515_103047.jpg 20190515_104144.jpg 20190515_104138.jpg 20190515_104254.jpg
     
  14. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    Hey other guys that run 455s, is he missing the springs on the rocker shaft like the earlier 430s and 400s or am I missing something?
     
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  15. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    At the very least you need to pull that rocker shaft and disassemble it, not too difficult, sorta like playing with legos. If any rockers are binding on the shaft before disassembly, that a sign of an issue, and that issue creates a ton of heat from the friction.
     
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  16. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    No springs on the later rockers John. Ethan, the nylon rocker retainers are easy to get, and it isn't unusual for them to break. Worn rockers and shafts can cause noise though. There is actually a Left and Right rocker though. Left and right in relation to the shaft retaining bolt. When standing over the fender and looking down at the cylinder head, the Left rocker goes to the left of the shaft bolt, the Right rocker, to the right.

    RockerArmOrientation.JPG

    A lot of the replacement rockers are stamped with an "L" and "R".

    https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/buick,1970,gs+455,7.5l+455cid+v8,1379763,engine,rocker+arm,5656

    https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog...d+v8,1379763,engine,rocker+arm+retainer,10316

    https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog...55cid+v8,1379763,engine,rocker+arm+shaft,5680

    https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=215307&cc=1379763&jsn=440

    TA Performance has the replacement assemblies,

    http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_1317

    http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_1317HD
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
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  17. Buickpwrdolds

    Buickpwrdolds Well-Known Member

    John I am thinking the nylon buttons take the place of the springs on these aluminum rockers to hold them in place, but I could be wrong.
     
  18. Buickpwrdolds

    Buickpwrdolds Well-Known Member

    Larry,
    These appear to be oriented correctly, they may well have never been off. What goes then for the alignment of the rocker tip with the valve? In my experience with stud mounted rockers, the rocker tip should be absolutely centered over the tip of the valve, as excessive wear could occur pretty quickly if not. Is this offset normal for these, or a sign of wear?
    -Ethan
     
  19. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    They might be worn. I think the early ones were aluminum, later was stamped steel.
     
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  20. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    90% of them will ride offset
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
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