We are going to build a new bullet proof set up. When they are done we will post pictures. It will not be one shaft like the Buick nor the chevy type. We are trying to make everything bullet proof, but explosion proof, well that is another story we hope not to read. We are trying to have every part made available through TA Performance. They are helping with the development of each part so they can be made available to the performance enthusiast. We are hoping that what we are doing will give a baseline for all who follow that they may take what we are doing to the extreme.
I can't wait to see these cylinder heads. We need a "big chief" style head to take full advantage of these awesome TA blocks..... If the heads you guys are making do get to TA and are offered to the Buick community, they sound like the price would be sky high..I am very interested though, pics. and flow numbers will be what I need to see... Gary G.
The ProFiler (Darin Morgan) Raptor Cylinder head is more powerfull . Please becarefull on the heads, I prefer Hemi style heads over standard canted, and rotated valves, Now if the heads are like the DRCE Prostock Chevy heads then you are talking some serious business then..
Gary and Eric I will try to find the flow numbers for the water jacketed heads we used for the mock up. We had to get past a few of the inevitable geometry issues. The new heads are solid with no water jackets so we will have a lot of aluminum we can remove to straighten things out, which will increase the flow substantially. We need to keep a fair amount of material separating the ports so we don't have any issues with the fuel we are using. I will put up the numbers when I find them. I will see if I can find a picture of the rocker assemblies similar to what we are using. Too much running around at the moment for work. I wish I did not have to earn a living (insert sponsor plug here). I am so into this project, I really enjoy working on it, and I truly can't wait to drive it:3gears:
The Stage 4 heads (water cooled) we used in the mock-up were 2.3" intake that flowed 369 cfm @ .600. The exhaust valve was a 1.80" and flowed 284 @.600 . The exhaust valves we are using are larger, and with no water jackets our goal of 300 cfm + with the exhaust is very achievable.
Well, I hoped for better numbers.... My TE's flow those numbers. These were "mock up" heads, the solid ones should be better, right?? I know a great head porter in Orange County California.... I had pretty high expectations, the TA block met these, now as I said we need heads... I'm still very interested in your project. Still would like to see pictures, whenever. Gary G.
Gary The numbers will be much better than these.. This was the average number of the three flow test done at three different companies, in three totally different locations. We did this so we would have a base line to test against. As you know there can be a good/bad amount of variation in test numbers. I did not feel it reasonable to give the high numbers on this thread as as this would sound like an ad or something :error: . We are trying to give an honest and practical play by play without exaggerating the numbers. As we proceed with the heads we will give the flow number average not the max. Trying to keep this realistic:beer . I will post some pictures soon after I put my hands on the heads...
Your gonna need numbers in the high 400 range to achieve your goal, and that is given. This company http://www.ultrapromachining.net/ should now they built this Canted and splayed valve head and it flows like hell.
Your gonna need numbers in the high 400 range to achieve your goal, and that is given. This company http://www.ultrapromachining.net/ should now they built this Canted and splayed valve head [/URL][/IMG] , [/URL][/IMG] and it flows like hell.
Oh by the way they didn't have to go use high tech roller rockers or shafts either. Prime example of what you need to get your project in the 2000+ Horse Power range and that's with lots of boost to boot. But you plan on running Nitromethane which is easily obtained with that stuff.
This is why we don't make Stage 3 or 4 heads anymore, our Stage 2 TE's have improved so much that they're at the level of the 3/4's but don't require any of the special parts. Much more practical compared to years ago when 3/4's were the king of the crop!
Gary, remember, we don't race flow benches and flow benches vary greatly!!! Mike, would you happen to know the difference in the port volume (in cc's) of the Stg2 TEs vs the Stg 4? The engine experts out there say that after a certain CID port volume is more important than flow numbers? In both naturally aspirated and forced induction engines.
John this is also one of the reasons we chose the displacement we did. We went with what we felt the heads could handle. Our compression level will also allow a large tuning window (fuel volume,air pressure, and to a smaller degree timing) with the fuel we are using. I am willing to bet we will have one of the smallest displacement Tomahawks out there:grin:
As I was told by Darin Morgan, Profiler Cylinder Heads, Brodix, and Many more I personally called. They all said when you force induct a engine, You can have The worse heads on earth(example ford 1975 heads) and you still can make 1000 ponies, if you know what your doing! Flow benches does more then just figure out flow, it also show you where to port and where the swirl is also show you PORT VELOCITY. Now it is up to you as a cylinder head expert to figure out where it should be. That is Why I only talk to people that has done this for decades not yrs. If you think for one second Darin and all other's I mentioned hasn't done what you done? You better wake up. Especially Marcella Manifolds, he did work for a top fuel team for yrs and he wanted something different so he ventured off on his own. I have talked with Marcella to see if he done a Buick 455 BBB intake yet, and I will tell you what he has said When I get a reply ok? He is the man I would contact for some insight. But like I said you will need well over 400 CFM to accomplish the job you are trying to do. I'm not trying to be cocky, I want to see this to be successful, not another over priced need improving cylinder head.
Here is something to look at and study, I have known this for yrs and I have used it to my advantage. As an engine fuel Nitromethane is used as a fuel in motor racing, particularly drag racing, as well as for rockets and model airplanes and commonly referred to in this context as "nitro". The oxygen content of nitromethane enables it to burn with much less atmospheric oxygen. 4CH3NO2 + 3O2 → 4CO2 + 6H2O + 2N2 14.7 lb (6.7 kg) of air is required to burn 1 lb (0.45 kg) of gasoline, but only 1.7 lb (0.77 kg) of air for 1 lb of nitromethane. Since an engine's cylinder can only contain a limited amount of air on each stroke, 8.7 times more nitromethane than gasoline can be burned in one stroke. Nitromethane, however, has a lower energy density: Gasoline provides about 4244 MJ/kg whereas nitromethane provides only 11.3 MJ/kg. This analysis indicates that nitromethane generates about 2.3 times the power of gasoline when combined with a given amount of oxygen. Nitromethane can also be used as a monopropellant, i.e., a fuel that burns without added oxygen. The following equation describes this process: 2 CH3NO2 → 2 CO + 2 H2O + H2 + N2 Nitromethane has a laminar combustion velocity of approx. 0.5 m/s, somewhat higher than gasoline, thus making it suitable for high speed engines. It also has a somewhat higher flame temperature of about 2,400 C (4,350 F). The high heat of vaporization of 0.56 MJ/kg together with the high fuel flow provides significant cooling of the incoming charge (about twice that of methanol), resulting in reasonably low temperatures. Nitromethane is usually used with rich air/fuel mixtures because it provides power even in the absence of atmospheric oxygen. When rich air/fuel mixtures are used, hydrogen and carbon monoxide are two of the combustion products. These gases often ignite, sometimes spectacularly, as the normally very rich mixtures of the still burning fuel exits the exhaust ports. Very rich mixtures are necessary to reduce the temperature of combustion chamber hot parts in order to control pre-ignition and subsequent detonation. Operational details depend on the particular mixture and engine characteristics. A small amount of hydrazine blended in nitromethane can increase the power output even further. With nitromethane, hydrazine forms an explosive salt that is again a monopropellant. This unstable mixture poses a severe safety hazard, and is forbidden for use in model aircraft fuels. In model aircraft and car glow fuel, the primary ingredient is generally methanol with some nitromethane (0% to 65%, but rarely over 30% since nitromethane is expensive compared to methanol) and 1020% lubricants (usually castor oil and/or synthetic oil). Even moderate amounts of nitromethane tend to increase the power created by the engine (as the limiting factor is often the air intake), making the engine easier to tune (adjust for the proper air/fuel ratio). This is a copy and paste. That's why Billy Glidden was allegally setting records with his Small Block Ford(383 to 416 cid) They said he used the used oil out of Top fuel car and had a PCV valve hooked under the carb to suck in the aerated Nitromethane which in resulted in making more power then as usual. It does Work great with Nitrous:TU:. So if you want a engine to produce over 4000 ponies you have to figure out how to make atleast 2000 on the engine with alternative fuel. Good Luck guy's. I'm not your average cookie here. Gary McGruther
The stgae 2 tes' are great, and true we don't race flow benches....But we all know that now that we have an awesome block, we will need even better heads, like I said, some big chief style would be great. I'm building my aluminum nitrous "bullet" it will make great power, but like I said better heads equal better power. The guy who just did some touch up port work would like to open the ports even more, bigger cubic inch motors need more port area, he wants me to look into offset intake rockers to see if this is feasiable... Honestly, I 've also talked to a buick guru, kicked from this board, and he said the gains aren't really worth the cost... I will follow this thread, it is an awesome project, and the end product could show "the others" how the Buick can preform... Gary G.
